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Tuning parameters

BuickGN

TTA# 130
Just got my ECM back and am using stock programming. Put it in and then adjusted the IAC and TPS per procedure from GM manual from the Turbo regal website which has the same engine so I use that. Got everything in spec but idle still won't come down to normal. Reads 1000 at idle instead of 850. I even did the adjustment procedure twice. All other parameters are well in spec. o2, IAC counts, TPS, integrator, BLM, MAF etc. Will the next time I take it out and get time on the ECM clock will it fix itself? Something else I should be trying to diagnose, troubleshoot or adjust?
 
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I think you're right about getting the ECM to re-learn and that may take 15-20 miles. And maybe some start cycles in there too.

I would like to know what your IAC counts are wamed up and in park, then in gear.

I assume you have done the base idle setting procedure with the idle stop screw.


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I think you're right about getting the ECM to re-learn and that may take 15-20 miles. And maybe some start cycles in there too.

I would like to know what your IAC counts are wamed up and in park, then in gear.

I assume you have done the base idle setting procedure with the idle stop screw...
that's what I explained in my post was that I did the IAC setting procedure and TPS setting procedure twice to make sure.
Idle stayed where it is right now. My IAC counts were 23-25 in Park did not get the reading in drive.

One thing for sure it sounds and drives a lot better than it did before the adjustment. When I first started it would idle 2000 or above and then come down to about 1500 only by turning the car off and turning it back on again and would sound sick idling by jumping and popping just slightly to make it sound like something wasn't right. TPS was reading .57 at idle and 3.86 at WOT. My IAC counts were 60 and over. Amazing how a few minor adjustments to a couple of sensors can make such a big difference!​

Car as it been driven much over last couple years since I owned it and not enough time to play with it since working on my GN. When I was going to buy one of these, I wanted to get a cloth interior car and had to wait while to find one. So when one came up whether I was ready or not I picked it up. Bought from Ron Kristin who is a big member on this site. Got it for a decent price in my mind because the air-conditioner wasn't working and had brake rotors ready to put on but wasn't done. It was something else also but can't remember. So since I bought the car I was working getting everything back into shape slowly.

I also installed a Moates Autoprom so I can play with the programming a little bit. The whole car plus the programming stock right now. Also installed an Escort 9500ci custom installed radar laser detector with high-powered laser heads in red light camera database. We did a awesome custom installation of the laser heads into the parking lights so they disguised. Also have a flip plate in the front that slides underneath the front of the car and makes it a nice clean front of the car and I can flip the plate up to be legal. Also have a plate cover in the back that will shade and block the plate with a flick of a switch. Don't want any tickets from tolls or LEO's.:devil:
 
Sounds like your having some fun tunning your TTA! Tinkering with these cars is always a good thing for sure. Keeping them in tune is even a better thing! :clap:

I know when I adjusted the TPS and IAC on my GN it took some driving around and then rechecking the settings. I did it about 4 times before it was dead on. It also seemed like the idle came down a pinch more over time. I also put a NOS new TPS and IAC on the car just due to age and that helped getting the adjustment dead on BIG TIME! Sometimes that IAC gets so far whacked out you almost can't get it happy again even when it seems to be in spec. Did you put a new IAC or clean the one in the car? If you did'nt put a new one in or clean it, I would at least pull it out and clean it really good. They are known for getting gummed up. Also pop off the IAC boss to make sure that is not all gummed up as well.

The IAC and TPS are extremely important sensors to keep in range on these cars big time!

I'm not sure about that programmer either. These cars seem to like it when you keep things very simple and basic. A scanmaster and turbotweak chip with the correct parameters on the sensors is ALL you need for a very happy and well running TTA. I've seen many guys take it all the way back to stock to get things right.

Here is some very good reading when adjusting the TPS, IAC, and what range they should really be in. This is what I use to adjust mine and everything runs perfect using these guide lines! Many people don't realize that adjusting just the TPS can throw the IAC all out of range and only cause more problems. Look over these instructions and see if this is the range you adjusted your IAC and TPS in....
 
Re: Tuning parameters PART II

Throttle Position Sensor Adjustment
The TPS sensor is used to tell the ECM how far open the throttle blade is open in order to assist in determining how much fuel should be injected at any given moment. This is not the only tool used. Air flow, engine load (LV8), etc. are also calculated and input for fuel control.​
TPS adjustment is another area where folk lore has long persisted with no basis in fact. The sensor may be adjusted for idle voltage and wide open throttle voltage.​
Before we start, there is still a lot of misinformation floating around from the the past regarding settings for the TPS. It comes from before we understood how it worked. Don't be mislead by someone that tells you that there is some single magic number which is required for the car to run properly.​
Note that some programmable chip makers specify a certain window for both the idle range and the wide open throttle range when using their programmable chips. These guidelines must be followed in order to correctly program their chips. Read the instructions that come with the chip and follow them in order to ensure proper function with these chips.​
Let's start with wide open throttle settings.
The factory programming shuts down the AC compressor at 4.0 volts so the compressor is not working when you go wide open throttle. Therefore, you should exceed 4.0v for this setting.​
I normally set mine somewhere in the range of 4.2-4.8 v if I have no instructions from the chip maker.​
Performance does not change whether the setting is 4.2 or 4.8v.​
If you have too high a wot tps voltage, then you will throw a code 21 (see trouble codes under troubleshooting section so it is best not to set the wot tps over 4.8 even if it will go higher.
Rather than worrying about why you only have 4.48 volts at wide open throttle when your buddy told you it should be 4.65v, it is more beneficial to check that the throttle blade has moved as far as it can when you put the pedal to the floor. Look at the throttle blade lever when the pedal is pressed to the floor and see if it has gone all the way to the stop signifying that the blade is wide open.​
If it is not all the way open, there are generally three possible reasons as to why it has not.​
a) The floor mat is restricting the pedal from traveling as far as it should​
b) The throttle valve cable from the transmission has been adjusted too tightly and is not letting the the lever move as far as it should​
c) The throttle cable has stretched and is not moving until the pedal has moved a short distance. If you get down in the floor board and look at the pedal bell crank where it connects to the cable, you can see the slack, if it exists, between the ball on the end of the cable and the bell crank. An easy fix for this problem is to put a small tie wrap around the cable between the ball and the bell crank to take up the slack. This will make the throttle blade begin to move as soon as the pedal moves and should restore full blade opening.​
To determine the source of the problem, grab the throttle lever and move it by hand...

If it goes all the way and the blade is open, or nearly so...then it would appear to be a cable stretch problem.

If it goes all the way, but, the blade is substantially a distance from being wide open...removing some off the lever for more throw should help. I have never seen this problem but, I guess that anything is possible.

If it does not go all the way and make contact with the throttle body housing, then be sure there is nothing obstructing the pedal such as the mat. If there is not, then disconnect the tv cable and see if the lever will now move the rest of the way. If it does, then you know the problem is with the tv cable.​
Now, let's look at the idle TPS setting.
It does not matter with regard to idle quality whether the idle TPS voltage is 0.38 volts or 0.46 volts.(The factory spec appears to be 0.40 +/- .05v.....in other words, 0.35-0.45 v) The ECM looks at the initial voltage when the engine is started and creates a reference mark for fueling so there is no difference in fueling whether the voltage is 0.38 or 0.46. Now, if the voltage is above 0.46, the ECM will think the engine is not in the idle mode and will change the fueling, thereby messing up the idle. Normally, when you turn the key to "Run" (engine not running) and check the TPS voltage, you will note the setting such as 0.42 volts. Now if you start the engine, you will see the voltage now reads 0.44 volts. For this reason, we usually try to set the voltage no greater than 0.44 in order to be sure it does not slip out of the idle range and confuse the ECM when the engine is started.​
So how do we adjust TPS voltage?
Turn the key to "Run" but, do NOT start the engine. Loosen the two bolts that hold the TPS in place enough that the TPS can be moved. Note that the TPS is slotted so that the sensor may be rotated as well as moved fore and aft. (The top slot affects the idle setting and the the lower slot affects the wide open throttle voltage) Push the entire sensor as far forward as possible so that the two bolts are up against the back ends of the slots. Then, rotate the top of the sensor CCW a bit until your scan tool indicates an idle TPS voltage of say 0.38-0.44 volts and tighten the retaining bolts so that the sensor cannot move. Note that the idle may change as you move the sensor. Don't be deceived that you have changed or improved the idle. When you shut the engine off and restart, the idle will go back to where it was before you moved the sensor unless the sensor was out of range to begin with. As stated prior, the ecm rezeros the idle at each start.​
The ecm does not look at tps voltage when adjusting fueling. Rather, it looks at the tps percentage of full scale. Whatever the idle voltage, it is auto-zero'd to 0 percent when the car is started. Therefore fueling is not changed whether the idle voltage is 0.38 or 0.46 as the computer is feeding zero percent and commanding the fueling specified for idle fueling. Once the engine is started, and the tps set to zero percent, any movement of the tps is reflected as percent change even if the change is within the idle window checked when the engine was first started.​
Having set the idle voltage, now recheck the wide open throttle voltage. It will probably be around 4.5 v. If someone tells you that you should file the slots so you can get more voltage out of it, ignore them. Do not set the high end voltage to more than approximately 4.8 v or you may get a tps error code.
After finishing, slowly open the throttle while watching the TPS voltage on the scan tool. It should increment smoothly and steadily with no dead spots or jumps which would indicate a problem within the sensor.​
If you do not have a scan tool yet, you can use a digital voltmeter. Put the positive probe on the dark blue wire coming out of the TPS sensor and the negative probe on a good ground point such as the intake. With the key on, you will read the TPS voltage.​
One further note on the TPS voltages. If you adjust the IAC, turning the screw CW will increase your TPS voltages and the opposite will reduce them. Be sure that you don't let the TPS get out of the idle range.

 
Re: Tuning parameters PART III

IAC (Idle Air Control) Adjustment
The IAC function maintains idle quality through commands from the ECM, but, has NO impact beyond the idle range. Further, the IAC reading means nothing once the car is off idle.​
Idle speed is set by the chip, not by the IAC adjustment screw. Looking at the inside of the throttle body, there are two holes in the lower portion fore and aft of the throttle blade. At idle, the blade is essentially closed and air enters the front hole, goes past the IAC plunger, and exits behind the throttle blade into the plenum. The IAC plunger is pulsed by the ECM to maintain a steady idle with varying engine load.​
When the IAC is adjusted, we seem to typically look for IAC counts on our scan tool somewhere between 15-25 when the car is in Park, the engine fully warmed up, and the A/C is off. The lower the IAC number, the less control the ECM has over the idle as the throttle blade begins to be opened. This setting may not be as critical as we often make it. You may find your car idles just as well at 40 counts as it does at 15.​
With car in Park, engine fully warm, A/C off, look at the IAC counts on the scan tool. If you wish to lower the count number, turn the adjustment screw clockwise. To increase the counts, turn it counterclockwise. Turn the screw a small increment, turn the engine off, and restart. This insures that the IAC resets and confirms the adjusted number. Continue until the desired number is achieved. Often, on stock set ups, about 1-1 1/2 threads of the adjustment screw will emerge thru on the lever side of the throttle body. Restarting also rezeros the tps as stated in the prior section and removes any effect on idle speed that may have occurred due to tps movement. The IAC counts will probably be 30 counts, or more, higher on a cold engine than on a warmed up engine. The counts will also be much higher in gear as compared to Park, and, higher with the AC turned on.​
Remember that the IAC adjustment will change the TPS and that if the TPS moves past 0.46 volts, the idle may increase in speed as the ecm no longer thinks the car is in idle range. Therefore, if you are going to decrease IAC counts very much, it is a good idea to first lower the TPS down to 0.38 volts or so in order to prevent it from rising out of the idle range as you adjust the IAC.​
It is not a bad idea to clean the throttle body out periodically with carb cleaner to keep the passages clean and to insure that the IAC function works correctly. Remove the IAC from the housing and clean any carbon or gum off the tip of the plunger and clean the seat as well. Don't power up the IAC when the unit is not installed. Otherwise, you may find the plunger is pushed out of the sensor. When reinstalling, very little torque is required. Just tighten enough to compress the gasket to prevent an air leak. Over tightening may crack the plastic interior of the IAC.​

ttariderttariderttarider
 
FWIW, the stock chip in that car ALWAYS idled high, no matter what. One of the first things I replaced on the car, ~1995, was the IAC. I ran a couple different Thrasher chips, my favorite being the anti-theft chip. Idle was GREATLY improved over stock. It seems like nowadays everyone is running the Turbo Tweak chips and I'm sure that would help as well.
 
FWIW, the stock chip in that car ALWAYS idled high, no matter what. One of the first things I replaced on the car, ~1995, was the IAC. I ran a couple different Thrasher chips, my favorite being the anti-theft chip. Idle was GREATLY improved over stock. It seems like nowadays everyone is running the Turbo Tweak chips and I'm sure that would help as well.
You just answered my question. When you were around here that's one of things I wanted to do was have the car running so when we went to get a bite to eat you could get a nostalgic ride and I would be in my van so you could have a little fun. Your next trip. The sensors tuned in perfectly so I think they are still good. After I get some mileage on the ECM maybe it will come down a little bit anyways. With the Autoprom I can change settings on the fly. If I could get a bin file on some of those chips I can compare with the stock and see similar parameters that were done. My main thing was playing around like that and doing small changes like engine temp, fan adjustments etc. plus it functions as a scan tool and a data logger. Before I would have to pop open the ECM, take the chip out, burn another chip will you put everything back together. A lot of work for small changes. Now with this item I got the Bluetooth option so I don't even have to open anything up or use a cord. I can change functions on-the-fly with the real-time emulator. Plugs into the ALDL port to use as a scan tool and record runs easily. Plus I have a little Lenovo tablet laptop making it even easier! Wish I had this thing back in the nineties! Thing works great. Did you read up a few replies on some of the stealth options I put in?:yes:
 
Sounds like your having some fun tunning your TTA! Tinkering with these cars is always a good thing for sure. Keeping them in tune is even a better thing! :clap:
Look over these instructions and see if this is the range you adjusted your IAC and TPS in....
wow! Thanks for the lesson. Knowledge is power. I use the procedures they were on the Turbo regal website on the two items. Supposedly those who are taking out of the GM repair manual. Check out the attachment.

My before settings were:
IAC: 59-63
TPS idle: .57
TPS WOT: 3.88

after adjustments:
IAC: 23
TPS idle: .43
TPS WOT: 4.65

I'd say pretty much dead on! All other major functions came out right in the middle of the ranges listed on the Turbo regal website reference area. Plus it sounds good now. Still have to get some time on the ECM to settle in maybe decreasing the idle a bit.
 

Attachments

Yep, read those mods...sounds cool. I considered looking into those "stealth" bras that they advertised back in the day, supposed to absorb the radar. In the end I didn't want run around with bra on the front that might rub the paint.

The front plate was required in IL and the bracket was already on there when I bought it. I would have loved to take it off but that was just asking to get pulled over.

As it was I got pulled over a handful of times with that car and some how always had a horseshoe in my back pocket. The only ticket I got out of any of the stops was for not having a city sticker...just a BS way to generate revenue anyway. I wasn't always so lucky with my other cars. I got a ticket for "squeeling tires" in my Bonnie SSEi while going thru a corner!
 
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Still having problem with the high idle on my car. It's a lot better than before I did the adjustments, but still idles high like at 900-1100. It's like you don't need to gas sometimes. You're just braking it to keep it down. What other items would keep up idle? What about a leak in the EVAP? Just looking for something I can check or fix.
 
That's an interesting question about the the EVAP system. On one hand if it were allowing more air to be ingested(as a vacuum leak) I would think your idle block learn numbers would be up over 138. On the other hand if it were ingesting fuel vapor then the O2's would be stuck in the 800 range at idle with very little cross counts,if at all. That is if it's a closed loop idle chip.And your IAC numbers would be high as the ECM tries to add more bypass air.

Interesting thinking....


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These were my before and after settings that helped me to get the idle that low. Before it was higher. I know that leaks in that system can cause havoc. I plan eventually getting a smoke machine which helps to diagnose leaks in those easily. They also help to find leaks in Exhaust etc. this was thinking off the top of my head. Do you have any suggestions?

My before settings were:
IAC: 59-63
TPS idle: .57
TPS WOT: 3.88

after adjustments:
IAC: 23
TPS idle: .43
TPS WOT: 4.65
 
What about the MAF? Known good? I've seen those get whacked out and screw with the idle. Before I converted my 87 GN over to the translator when I would take the end of a screw driver and tap the MAF the idle would go all over the place. Just keep pecking away at it because in the end your going to have a car that's going to purr like a kitten!! :)
 
What about the MAF? Known good? I've seen those get whacked out and screw with the idle. Before I converted my 87 GN over to the translator when I would take the end of a screw driver and tap the MAF the idle would go all over the place. Just keep pecking away at it because in the end your going to have a car that's going to purr like a kitten!! :)

no response to the tapping. Also the values reading at idle is in spec. That also is what making it hard to diagnose is there are no codes and all readings seem to be in spec except for idle.
 
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