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Tuning methods

White Dwarf 89

Well-Known Member
I'd like to learn the different tuning methods used on the TTA's by some of you gents.
1. Tuning with scantool(scan master, direct scan, etc.)… what values?
2. Tuning with wide band… what readings?
3. Tuning with alky… degree retard? Fueling?


And all else that you may think of. Please post up! Would like to know your best tuning method up to date and the numbers expected on the tuning tools used. Thank you in advance as usual.
 
I have a scanmaster. I think my 02's are 840's - 860's WOT and I live with a little sporadic degrees of retard,like 2.00 or below when WOT. I suspect the downpipe maybe nicking the frame.

TT alky chip.
60# mototrons
62 psi of fuel @ 24 psi of boost - WOT

I have a a non-progressive alky setup. It's SMC. IT's set so that it comes on at 19psi. The boost comes on so fast that I have it come on at 19psi to hopefully be full on when the boost reaches 24psi. I did several runs and found that this 61 turbo is efficient to 20 psi on pump gas (about 65 degrees F/ mild humidity)
I think that the dutt intercooler neck helps keep the turbo efficient as possible with stock IC.

I just got all the stuff to hook up my AFR gauge. So, I think this will help a great deal.

What I'm doing now is guessing, but the scanmaster helps alot more than just listening for knock.

Before diagnostic tools we would just buy extra 02 sensors and run C16 leaded, it was band-aid tuning. But simple mods could get in the mid 12's on radials.

I want to start logging, that seems to be the best way to tune.
 
I know every car likes different tuning but there must be a base tune to start with depending on the power produced by the modifications. I thought I had read on TB that whn tuning with a scanmaster, one must shoot for around 780 O2's or something like that. With this information, we must understand what these numbers mean. Please correct me if I am wrong but when O2's are mentioned, it means that the sensor is telling the computer how much oxygen it is needed to correct the a/f ratio, right? The O2 sensor doesn't actually measure the oxygen present in the spent gases.
 
Please correct me if I am wrong but when O2's are mentioned, it means that the sensor is telling the computer how much oxygen it is needed to correct the a/f ratio, right? The O2 sensor doesn't actually measure the oxygen present in the spent gases.

I think it is related to A/F, in that it gives an indication of rich or lean. It's been a while, kinda forgot.
 
1. Tuning with scantool(scan master, direct scan, etc.)… what values?

I use both the scanmaster and directscan on my GTA. I know the directscan is old now compared to others but I got used to using it and didnt feel there was a benifit to switching for me. But having that 18 frame/sec data to review after a run is very valuable. I stopped using narrowband o2 values years ago but I remember shooting for around .800 on pumpgas and slightly lower on racegas. At WOT the pcm goes into open loop and does not adjust fueling, the o2's are only used during idle (unless your chip is set up for open loop idle) and part throttle closed loop conditions.

2. Tuning with wide band… what readings?

Using a wide band sensor tied into the factory computer is what helped me get the most out of my setup, and Eric's wide band chip is a big part of that. I always used to shoot for just under 12:1 (like 11.9-12.0) AFR but I cant say it enough that every car is different and you need to find out what your car likes. That said shooting for mid 11 AFR is a good place to start.

3. Tuning with alky… degree retard? Fueling?

I never used alky, not allowed in the classes I run and I was happy with how my car ran on gasoline alone, but I always shoot for 0.0 knock retard. Yeah some occasionally may not hurt anything but it was 0.0 knock was always something I tried to shoot for. It's not always possible but should be the goal.

Hope that helps you out some :)

Steve
 
I know every car likes different tuning but there must be a base tune to start with depending on the power produced by the modifications.

Yes, a base tune, but that will be set by the chip maker based on what mods your car has and what you tell him you want from the car.


Please correct me if I am wrong but when O2's are mentioned, it means that the sensor is telling the computer how much oxygen it is needed to correct the a/f ratio, right? The O2 sensor doesn't actually measure the oxygen present in the spent gases.

Kind of...The NB O2 simply measures oxygen content of spent exhaust gases and is expressed in .00-1.00 V, That is crudly compared to gasolines stoich which is 14.7 A/F ratio and would probably fall about .450mv on the O2's ouput,okay? So, before we delve into WB numbers and screw you up, you should understand how the ECM uses the NB's output. It uses AIT,TPS,MAF,O2 and various other sensors to determine how much fuel and or timing it needs to use to keep the engine efficient without making it detonate or making it a dog,also it needs to make the car driveable without stumbles,sags,bucking or stalling.
It's quite a juggling act when you think about how much information it needs to keep everybody happy and to simply focus on the O2 is ignoring many other factors. The O2 is actually one of the last things in that millisecond of data that is used and I guess you could use it as a judgement of how well the ECM is doing at controlling fueling and timing.
Problem comes when bigger turbos are installed or injectors don't match the chip's program that problems arise.

So, the O2 doesn't tell the ECM how much oxygen to add, but rather tells it how much is left in the burnt exhaust gases. The ECM determines how much fuel to add or subtract based on LV(load) vs. TPS.vs airflow,vs. coolant temps vs. outside air temp.vs.vehicle speed vs. gear in vs. altitude(MAP) etc,etc. It also adds or subracts timing advance too.

So my advise to you is to understand how a "closed loop" ECM functions, that will greatly reduce your learning curve and as you understand how that works you can see how a boosted engine requires different needs from that system.

I say that because people use stoich(14.7 A/F) is an ideal number but because a forced induction engine supplies much more air the ideal stoich is considerably lower,like 11 or 10.8. Then add methanol and average it's stoich (6.7) into the equation,because your dilluting the gasoline, and your numbers may want to be lower, like 10.3 depending on the percentage of alky being sprayed.Assuming too that you're running 93 unleaded. Now if your running race gas with a higher octane than your A/F target can be higher because it will be more resistant to detonation.

And of course lean is mean and fat is safe, but fast can be slow but lean means you can break shit.

So get a chip burnt for your cars application. Add a scanmaster and watch for detonation. It may detonate at NB numbers in the .780mv range and may not detonate in the .720 range...every car wants different things.

But in closing, right now learn about NB 02 tuning and forget stoich and wideband A/F numbers,mainly because they are inversed per say. Just concentrate on .0-1.o mv narrow band readings.



...
 
And I suppose we can't talk about closed loop tuning without mentioning open loop operation too.

Open loop is when the ECM is not in full feedback operation (stimulus /response or close loop). Basically this is when the car is first started cold or when the car is in P.E.( power enrichment) mode. Or when it is in default because of extreme sensor failure of some kind. Open loop is to the ECM "be damned with emissions, we need to make some power or get this car home"

Ironically, most of your adjustability to your tune will be in the "open loop" mode,mainly when the P.E. mode is set. This, of course, is for all the entry level chips and factory ECM's like the T.T. 5.6,5.7 and to some extent the 6.0.

But in your search to understand ECM's it is the closed loop operation that will be discussed.

I don't think any serious tuning can be had without an automatic understanding of this and more so the function of maybe a dozen sensors or so. Meaning,if your MAF is reading 15gps at closed loop idle you'd better know what a MAF is and if that's a normal flow in your turbo V6 at idle.

So, if your purchase a T.T. 5.6 chip be aware that your ability to change the tune is mainly in the P.E. mode. And not in the closed loop operation.

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