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Scott Kelly's Website comments
- Thread starter RatFink
- Start date
bravesoul1
bravesoul
Hi Scott.
I was one of the few 2 or 3 females there and got your autograph. I have so many questions and there is so much I don't know. Also been ripped of for a lot of money. Need help. When things settle down for you I really would like to talk to you.
I really. Really would like the file on my car #603. When I had it repainted they took the door stickers off and I didn't know enough to realize it. Is there anyway I can get them. Is there a duplicate in my car's file?
It was wonderful to meet you and Bill.
Thanks
Lynn
Car #603
I was one of the few 2 or 3 females there and got your autograph. I have so many questions and there is so much I don't know. Also been ripped of for a lot of money. Need help. When things settle down for you I really would like to talk to you.
I really. Really would like the file on my car #603. When I had it repainted they took the door stickers off and I didn't know enough to realize it. Is there anyway I can get them. Is there a duplicate in my car's file?
It was wonderful to meet you and Bill.
Thanks
Lynn
Car #603
I agree on the tires. If Scott still has friends in the industry, he just might be able to get this done.
It is time for goodyear to reproduce the gatorback tire. Or license it for some agent to reproduce them. Goodyear still makes gatorbacks in mustang size 245/45/17, so maybe they could still make it themselves. Even if they only did the corvette size 255/50/16. We could use them. Corvette people are fanatics, they have money, and they can't win at NCRS without these tires. Plus, almost nobody makes a good tire for them anymore, except michelin, who makes a very limited run of pilot sports each year for $500 each, and only makes them because they are required by the ferrari testarossa. The corvette guys will buy gatorback tires, which will inevitably be at least $400 each, and probably $450-$500. They made 155,000 corvettes with the 255/50/16 size. And another 10,000 or so in 88, with the standard 16" wheel.
I am afraid that the 245/50/16 size will not be viable to reproduce at this time, since the cost of 4 of them surpasses the value of most of the cars for which they would be bought. No way goodyear makes them just for tta and gnx (front tires only) people. Not enough cars.
I would definitely buy a set of 4 of the 255 corvette size for my tta ragtop. Until then, we should just be thankful that goodyear still makes the f1 tire in 245/50/16. Michelin, Pirelli, Dunlop, Continental, and Bridgestone have already abandoned our size in a performance summer tire.
It is time for goodyear to reproduce the gatorback tire. Or license it for some agent to reproduce them. Goodyear still makes gatorbacks in mustang size 245/45/17, so maybe they could still make it themselves. Even if they only did the corvette size 255/50/16. We could use them. Corvette people are fanatics, they have money, and they can't win at NCRS without these tires. Plus, almost nobody makes a good tire for them anymore, except michelin, who makes a very limited run of pilot sports each year for $500 each, and only makes them because they are required by the ferrari testarossa. The corvette guys will buy gatorback tires, which will inevitably be at least $400 each, and probably $450-$500. They made 155,000 corvettes with the 255/50/16 size. And another 10,000 or so in 88, with the standard 16" wheel.
I am afraid that the 245/50/16 size will not be viable to reproduce at this time, since the cost of 4 of them surpasses the value of most of the cars for which they would be bought. No way goodyear makes them just for tta and gnx (front tires only) people. Not enough cars.
I would definitely buy a set of 4 of the 255 corvette size for my tta ragtop. Until then, we should just be thankful that goodyear still makes the f1 tire in 245/50/16. Michelin, Pirelli, Dunlop, Continental, and Bridgestone have already abandoned our size in a performance summer tire.
michbc3
Well-Known Member
Something else that I thought about the other day is suspension pieces. Though you can buy shocks for these cars, how do you know that they are compatible with the suspension? Even things like proper sway bar end link bushings? If Scott gets an operation going, maybe he could evaluate products on the market and become a distributor.
TTA579
South Bay TTA "Barn" Find
The only concern I'd have about the suspension would be spring rates. I don't know what the weight difference is between the TTA's 3.8 turbo, and the 2.8s, 305s, and 350s but that is a key consideration when replacing springs.
Otherwise the TTA's suspension geometry is the same as any other stock 3rd Gen Firebird or Camaro. (The intercooler's proximity to the steering rack, hindering wonder/wander bar installation is not a geometric change.) You can comfortably purchase parts from Spohn, BMR, UMI or any other vendor selling parts for 82-92 Camaros and Firebirds.
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I have run 255/50-16 gatorbacks on the front and do not recall any rub issues. Other than running worn out shocks I don't see an issue with the 255's all around.
Glenn
michbc3
Well-Known Member
I agree about getting the proper springs too. My concern is that if you want your TTA to perform as originally designed/tuned, you're not going to want just any old shock that Advance Auto Parts sells for a third gen V8 Firebird. Same goes for the durometer of end link bushings.
Hi Guys, and Gals,
Here is the my responses to your posts:
Jan,
I want the narration on the photos so that they do not get used somewhere without the poster know what they are of.
Second, I have computer printouts of the production of the TTAs from Van Nuys, PAS and Pontiac that have all the dates, order numbers, ship dates etc. The issue is that they will not scan to a point the OCR with do an accurate job so I need to sort that out. What you could do is keep a registry of all the VINs and their owners so that when you guys need parts we can contact as many owners as possible to keep the part price down. I will get you an entire list of VINs soon.
As far as the Presentation Deck goes, that powerpoint was made for the website and is work in progress. I am covering all that I talked about at Hebron and much, much, more on website since I could not cover it in just 3 hours. ( the time went fast so I hope no one was bored)
On the subject of VINs. I will supply the last 6 digits of the VINs. With Carfax and other electronic means complete VINs invite others to find your cars and you. I strongly recommend that all VINs listed on this site be the last 6 digits only.
On the subject of Sequence Numbers, I will list those as well soon and they will be accurate. However, keep in mind that it may not agree with the PHS letters that are out there. The Pontiac VINs are in sequence to which they were built by Pontiac but not the order in which they were finished and shipped by us. In order for your sequence number to be totally accurate I would have to go through all the records and figure out what car was shipped on what day and start with the lowest vin for that day. I recommend that you guys use the sequence of the VINs like you have been doing if you want to identify your cars that way but I will always used the last 6 of the VINs to keep my records for all the cars including the Syclones, Typhoons, Sonoma GTs, etc.
I have to sort out how I am going to get the other data on the website but I have also looked into making custom picture books for the TTAs with your individual build data in the front and I would sign all of them so you have valid accurate documentation for each of your cars. My printer is looking into the costs as we also have to clean up all the old photos to get the high resolution required.
Lynn,
Yes I remember your car and the missing “Cert Label”. I do have some spares but I would have to type in the correct information to make it look as original as possible and give you a letter stating that it came from PAS, inc. I am swamped right now looking at buildings and getting customers to get PAS going again so it will probably be in the Spring I could get that to you.
On the several responses to PAS reopening, I have been working on this part time until recently. I have re-incorporated PAS, Inc. and own the name. The Viper guys are in the same boat you guys are and there are about 500 of them in the area. I met a few of them at the Woodward Dream Cruise and they are a big supporter at this point as they do not like the dealers and their cars are having issues getting parts as well.
I am working on one of their members cars at the moment that has a Paxton Supercharger with a water to air intercooler (right off a Syclone). Unfortunately it has been butchered and is unreliable. I am repairing it now and will post photos in a couple weeks.
Tires,
I can look into making new Gatorbacks soon, again, the more of you that need them the better I can do on prices. I also have a good friend at Michelin that we could get a “group buy” of tires all at once to keep the cost down.
In changing tire dimensions or specs, this is a big subject. To stay with the stock size is what I recommend. In adding overall diameter you actually raise the car a touch which raised the CG which is what you don’t want, Also this makes the make the speedometer incorrect so no matter what try to keep the overall diameter the same. In width, the stock tires would hit the fender liners in the front so I would not go wider on the front. If you want to go wider on the rear make sure the overall diameter is the same and make sure the wheel is correct for the tire. Putting wider tires on too narrow of wheel makes the car move around a bit laterally like on an off ramp.
If you guys would like the cars to handle better the newer tires of the stock size are much better than the Gatorbacks. But you may have to work with the tire pressure to get them to fit your driving style. Remember these were made to go around corners which is why we put in the 1LE baffled tank. Without this tank you could starve the fuel pump with under a quarter tank of fuel.
Shocks and other parts,
Yes I will be looking at parts for your cars as replacements. Unfortunately there are plenty of “performance” parts out there that take the car outside it’s as tested configuration. Again, as you guys let me know what you need I will try to supply it. I noticed most of the cars at the reunion had K&N filters for instance under the hood. This design does not work, the “can” that we had worked better as it took cool air from the fender and we “bell mouthed” the opening on a flow bench to get maximum flow. The TTA air filter housing is different from the GN so don’t throw them out.
The K&Ns do flow better that stock but the inlet air temperature is much higher under the hood which makes less power. I am looking at a system that would give you cooler air with higher flow and no car modifications so that they could be returned to stock. However I need to get the business put together first to test various designs and show you guys that it works.
Tony,
The ZF-6 speed that we put in the HO TTA had a custom built mount that was similar to the “horseshoe” bracket but was not stock. You will have to do the same for your car.
michbc3,
You must remember that there were no aftermarket ECUs out there 20 years ago so chassis dyno tuning will be a learning experience. This is where engine dynos work since you don’t have the other distractions. I did engine durability testing at Pontiac from 81-86 and engine development testing at Prototype from 86-90 and we did most of our power tuning on the engine dyno and fine tuned driveability on the street.
Well that’s about all the computer time for the day as the back is hurting. I hope this is helpful.
The TTA Testing, TTA Festival Cars and TTA Production sections should be up on the website this week so let me know what you think.
Scott
Here is the my responses to your posts:
Jan,
I want the narration on the photos so that they do not get used somewhere without the poster know what they are of.
Second, I have computer printouts of the production of the TTAs from Van Nuys, PAS and Pontiac that have all the dates, order numbers, ship dates etc. The issue is that they will not scan to a point the OCR with do an accurate job so I need to sort that out. What you could do is keep a registry of all the VINs and their owners so that when you guys need parts we can contact as many owners as possible to keep the part price down. I will get you an entire list of VINs soon.
As far as the Presentation Deck goes, that powerpoint was made for the website and is work in progress. I am covering all that I talked about at Hebron and much, much, more on website since I could not cover it in just 3 hours. ( the time went fast so I hope no one was bored)
On the subject of VINs. I will supply the last 6 digits of the VINs. With Carfax and other electronic means complete VINs invite others to find your cars and you. I strongly recommend that all VINs listed on this site be the last 6 digits only.
On the subject of Sequence Numbers, I will list those as well soon and they will be accurate. However, keep in mind that it may not agree with the PHS letters that are out there. The Pontiac VINs are in sequence to which they were built by Pontiac but not the order in which they were finished and shipped by us. In order for your sequence number to be totally accurate I would have to go through all the records and figure out what car was shipped on what day and start with the lowest vin for that day. I recommend that you guys use the sequence of the VINs like you have been doing if you want to identify your cars that way but I will always used the last 6 of the VINs to keep my records for all the cars including the Syclones, Typhoons, Sonoma GTs, etc.
I have to sort out how I am going to get the other data on the website but I have also looked into making custom picture books for the TTAs with your individual build data in the front and I would sign all of them so you have valid accurate documentation for each of your cars. My printer is looking into the costs as we also have to clean up all the old photos to get the high resolution required.
Lynn,
Yes I remember your car and the missing “Cert Label”. I do have some spares but I would have to type in the correct information to make it look as original as possible and give you a letter stating that it came from PAS, inc. I am swamped right now looking at buildings and getting customers to get PAS going again so it will probably be in the Spring I could get that to you.
On the several responses to PAS reopening, I have been working on this part time until recently. I have re-incorporated PAS, Inc. and own the name. The Viper guys are in the same boat you guys are and there are about 500 of them in the area. I met a few of them at the Woodward Dream Cruise and they are a big supporter at this point as they do not like the dealers and their cars are having issues getting parts as well.
I am working on one of their members cars at the moment that has a Paxton Supercharger with a water to air intercooler (right off a Syclone). Unfortunately it has been butchered and is unreliable. I am repairing it now and will post photos in a couple weeks.
Tires,
I can look into making new Gatorbacks soon, again, the more of you that need them the better I can do on prices. I also have a good friend at Michelin that we could get a “group buy” of tires all at once to keep the cost down.
In changing tire dimensions or specs, this is a big subject. To stay with the stock size is what I recommend. In adding overall diameter you actually raise the car a touch which raised the CG which is what you don’t want, Also this makes the make the speedometer incorrect so no matter what try to keep the overall diameter the same. In width, the stock tires would hit the fender liners in the front so I would not go wider on the front. If you want to go wider on the rear make sure the overall diameter is the same and make sure the wheel is correct for the tire. Putting wider tires on too narrow of wheel makes the car move around a bit laterally like on an off ramp.
If you guys would like the cars to handle better the newer tires of the stock size are much better than the Gatorbacks. But you may have to work with the tire pressure to get them to fit your driving style. Remember these were made to go around corners which is why we put in the 1LE baffled tank. Without this tank you could starve the fuel pump with under a quarter tank of fuel.
Shocks and other parts,
Yes I will be looking at parts for your cars as replacements. Unfortunately there are plenty of “performance” parts out there that take the car outside it’s as tested configuration. Again, as you guys let me know what you need I will try to supply it. I noticed most of the cars at the reunion had K&N filters for instance under the hood. This design does not work, the “can” that we had worked better as it took cool air from the fender and we “bell mouthed” the opening on a flow bench to get maximum flow. The TTA air filter housing is different from the GN so don’t throw them out.
The K&Ns do flow better that stock but the inlet air temperature is much higher under the hood which makes less power. I am looking at a system that would give you cooler air with higher flow and no car modifications so that they could be returned to stock. However I need to get the business put together first to test various designs and show you guys that it works.
Tony,
The ZF-6 speed that we put in the HO TTA had a custom built mount that was similar to the “horseshoe” bracket but was not stock. You will have to do the same for your car.
michbc3,
You must remember that there were no aftermarket ECUs out there 20 years ago so chassis dyno tuning will be a learning experience. This is where engine dynos work since you don’t have the other distractions. I did engine durability testing at Pontiac from 81-86 and engine development testing at Prototype from 86-90 and we did most of our power tuning on the engine dyno and fine tuned driveability on the street.
Well that’s about all the computer time for the day as the back is hurting. I hope this is helpful.
The TTA Testing, TTA Festival Cars and TTA Production sections should be up on the website this week so let me know what you think.
Scott
RatFink
TORQUE
This would be very cool, and something that looked factory or similar to what was stock.
Good stuff Scott, sent you a PM about the registry :thumbup:
If I remember correctly SLP used to have a cold air intake box that was a large canister and bolted directly to the opening in the fender. I think it did require moving the charcoal canister but other than that was a direct bolt in but not cheap. Not sure if it's available anymore as this was years ago.
Yep they did, the sold two versions one for the driver side (so could be used on the TTA) and a mirror version for the passanger side.
But Ron is correct you had to remove and relocate your canister and I think also the crouise control module down in that same area. Also remove the TTA specific bracket holding the stock airbox and canister in place. Oh and I suspect the horns have to be relocated as feel as the box sits in that opening pulling cold air in from the fender.
So besides the above it's a direct bolt in and the 90 degree elbow going to the stock airbox would attach to the SLP box ..
I got one but never installed it as it does require so much stuff to be relocated but it's a nice setup and maybe a similar setup could be designed?
And the SLP setup was not cheap as I remember it around $250 or so when new .... anyone interested in just the box let me know lol
biggdoggtta
Junior Member
I have a SLP single system in my 89 Formula350 and I also have a SLP dual setup (or 2) 4 SD cars.
The single system is designed for the pass side of TPI cars.
The single and dual kits have 2 diff designs for their filter boxes..
I have old SLP catalogs from 88-9 and one from 92-3 I think, I havent seen a SLP cold air kit for just the TTA pass side....yet
I'm wondering if its just a left hand box from a dual kit?
Either way its a cool find if they did make em!
The single system is designed for the pass side of TPI cars.
The single and dual kits have 2 diff designs for their filter boxes..
I have old SLP catalogs from 88-9 and one from 92-3 I think, I havent seen a SLP cold air kit for just the TTA pass side....yet
I'm wondering if its just a left hand box from a dual kit?
Either way its a cool find if they did make em!
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turbota633
Active Member
This info is outstanding, since I missed the show, I can't wait for the website to be up so I can read up on all the historical facts.
It also is very exciting to hear about PAS being re-incorporated.... I'm unemployed...do you need any hands??
On another note, all I can think of is how someday I want to have my own 3.8 HO TTA with a 6 speed, I don't care what the critics say, it just sounds fun, damn it. I guess when the time comes, I'll have to go GTA shopping, I couldn't do it to my TTA.
It also is very exciting to hear about PAS being re-incorporated.... I'm unemployed...do you need any hands??
On another note, all I can think of is how someday I want to have my own 3.8 HO TTA with a 6 speed, I don't care what the critics say, it just sounds fun, damn it. I guess when the time comes, I'll have to go GTA shopping, I couldn't do it to my TTA.
bravesoul1
bravesoul
Scott,
I realize you are swamped and I can wait until Spring, I don't understand why they were not there. I have a picture of the door before I had it painted and they were there. It is a long story but basically I was criminally taken for about $15k which was a small inheritance I had. They talked me out of replacing the leather seats and supposedly redid them by "panels", then came back at me for 5 more which ended up at $4K. Its too long a story to tell here. Found out at the reunion more ways they ripped me off, They put the rear fenders on with the wrong fasteners (Jan pointed it out to me). Redid mywheels in the wrong color despite being told, got the car back with paint on the vinyl, vinyl slashed, cut and not flush back together. Then the owner shot himself in the head and his heirs declared the shop bankrupt so no recourse. The guys here are so wonderful and helping me out. Feel kind of like a fish out of water, but i LOVE that car. You are so great to do all that you are doing and I am glad I got to meet you even for a short time. Your talk and Bill Owen's was fascinating.
Do you have any idea where I can get a new antenna nos kit? Or radio fixed, cassette barely works and radio doesn't TakeCare
Lynn
Diamond Beauty #603
I realize you are swamped and I can wait until Spring, I don't understand why they were not there. I have a picture of the door before I had it painted and they were there. It is a long story but basically I was criminally taken for about $15k which was a small inheritance I had. They talked me out of replacing the leather seats and supposedly redid them by "panels", then came back at me for 5 more which ended up at $4K. Its too long a story to tell here. Found out at the reunion more ways they ripped me off, They put the rear fenders on with the wrong fasteners (Jan pointed it out to me). Redid mywheels in the wrong color despite being told, got the car back with paint on the vinyl, vinyl slashed, cut and not flush back together. Then the owner shot himself in the head and his heirs declared the shop bankrupt so no recourse. The guys here are so wonderful and helping me out. Feel kind of like a fish out of water, but i LOVE that car. You are so great to do all that you are doing and I am glad I got to meet you even for a short time. Your talk and Bill Owen's was fascinating.
Do you have any idea where I can get a new antenna nos kit? Or radio fixed, cassette barely works and radio doesn't TakeCare
Lynn
Diamond Beauty #603
About the gatorback tires, if you can persuade that giant company Goodyear to make gatorbacks in the proper size, obviously that would be best for many reasons. We want to restore the cars to original condition. My only reason for suggesting the 255 size is because then there would be hundreds of thousands of corvette owners who could potentially be customers. I figured there would be no chance that they would make a tire just for our size, since there are not enough wealthy customers to make the project economically prudent.
They still make a gatorback in 245 45 17 size, (there is a huge base of customers with mustangs that take that size). I don't know what is involved in Goodyear doing a special run of our 16" size. Hopefully it is not too difficult if they already have the production running for the 17" size. That 17" size has the same tread width and overall diameter as our size. I don't know if that helps. We can't assume the 17" gatorbacks will be made for much longer, as the tire design is already 28 years old. If we could get them to make our size while they are still making the 17" size, it might make the them less expensive. And more importantly, they would be made by goodyear, rather than being licensed to an old car tire repro company.
They still make a gatorback in 245 45 17 size, (there is a huge base of customers with mustangs that take that size). I don't know what is involved in Goodyear doing a special run of our 16" size. Hopefully it is not too difficult if they already have the production running for the 17" size. That 17" size has the same tread width and overall diameter as our size. I don't know if that helps. We can't assume the 17" gatorbacks will be made for much longer, as the tire design is already 28 years old. If we could get them to make our size while they are still making the 17" size, it might make the them less expensive. And more importantly, they would be made by goodyear, rather than being licensed to an old car tire repro company.
Hi Guys,
Sorry about not getting back to your PMs but like I said, I really have to limit how much time I am on the computer.
I was able to get a few sections on the website but many to go so be patient.
I am reworking a poorly done 2002 Viper GTS that has a 2004 Gen 3 engine that has been bored and stroked to 9 Liters. On top of that it has a cobbled up Paxton Supercharger with a water to air intercooler system. We are rebuilding the fuel system, rewiring the engine, calibrating the AEM system, reworking the power steering, oil cooler, intercooler, electrical, PCV/breather, and vacuum systems and replacing damaged parts from poor fabrication or improper installations. A big project and heartbraking as the owner actually paid several shops to do this work and they did a horrible job.
Now on to the PMs and responses on the blog:
Jan:
I appreciate your enthusiasm for keeping the registry but I will never allow letters to be sent out from PAS that are not from PAS. On the build records understand there are two things you are referencing, one is the printouts that were generated by both PAS and GM when the cars were built, the second is the VIN records I kept for every car we built. I will not let these out any more and am getting the printouts back from Rich. I am leaning toward doing something special for PAS Vehicle owners once PAS is making money. I will however be releasing the last six digits of each vin with the GM sequence number soon that you will be able to use to generate the registry from.
Anthony:
On the Exhaust, many people make too much out of it on turbo and supercharged cars. Realize that when making big power on the TTA the restriction is not in the exhaust (with the cat) but in the elbow coming out of the turbo. The TTA HO had a custom stainless elbow that we made to remove that restriction and fabricated a new exhaust with an oval downpipe that went to a flowmaster muffler. I had low backpressure but I never liked the sound of a flowmaster on the TTA.
Boost, this depends on your configuration. I can only talk to a stock TTA. I liked to run 18 lbs with no cat and 104 octane fuel. This generated over 400 foot pound of torque and about 4.3 ish 0-60 times with stock everything else (including the chip).
Chips, no comment as these are all new since we built the cars. My normal response is that there is hundreds of hours to develop the stock chip and we made it so that as long as the engine does not knock it will keep making power with no speed limiter.
PCV systems, all supercharged and turbocharged engines make more crankcase gasses than a naturally aspirated engine. The PCV valve closed under boost so it does not hurt anything but the breather tube send the gasses into the compressor inlet of the turbo when the PCV valve is closed. This DOES send oil into the intercooler and it sits in the bottom and sooner or letter collects. Since all of your cars have been around a while I would recommend removing the intercooler, clean it out with solvent of some kind and make sure it is dry before re-installing it. We used to make a plug for one end and pressurize it with compressed air while holding it upside down.
To answer your question on why, it is a law that the engine cannot let fumes of gas or oil into the air so the best place to put it is in the vacuum side of the turbo. The push in breathers are old school and work but get oil all over the engine compartment after a while. We made “catch cans” for the breather system that caught the oil and then vented the fumes to the Turbo inlet. This can has to be drained periodically. You can now buy catch cans at racing parts houses that work the same but have a breather on top and a drain that work well.
For Summer only cars plugging the water ports to the throttle body are ok but I don’t think that it makes much difference as the air is going pretty fast at WOT by the throttle body.
On the airflow, I don’t know as when we ran stock boost pressures we never saw any unusual exhaust temps on those cylinders. However, maybe there is a difference with excess boost.
On the TTA HO for yourself. I would rather you modify a Trans Am rather than reduce the value of your TTA. With most cars the value of special cars start going up after 20 years and collectors want stock cars no matter how nice the mods are. I would use a Trans AM, not a GTA as they were lighter. To have to good fun also install a real roll cage. This is not only for safety though, the chassis stiffness is much improved and makes the suspension really work. This makes the car feel much lighter and more fun in the corners. Make sure that you have someone that knows how to put in a roll bar. If it is put in on a lift the car will not be flat when on the ground and give you all kinds of weird handling problems.
I will be able to do these when I get the shop together but they are not cheap.
Ron,
Sorry for not responding but I do not check the blog very often and missed the opportunity.
Bob,
I am glad you are winning on your calibration. I think you can appreciate all the time that goes into programming one of these cars. We also had to meet 50-state emissions and gas guzzler on top of making it fast and drive-able. On the fuel pump, I recommend to all of you to make sure you need something before looking at new products. Before putting on a bigger fuel pump, connect a known accurate fuel pressure gage to your fuel rail with an extension to tape it to your windshield. Do some WOT runs and verify that your fuel pressure is going down. If not, don’t waste your money. If it does just a little then do the same thing but with a volt meter connected near the pump and check your voltage. If not as good as at the battery then run a 12 ga wire to the pump and make sure the ground is good. Then check the pressure again.
Another think is to look at your O2 sensor readings and see if it is going lean at WOT. If the fuel pressure and voltage are good but you are leaning out you may need a little more fuel pressure or larger injectors.
I do not recommend water/meth injection for the street. The failure mode for these systems is if it stops working under boost you can detonate the engine to death. I also have a problem with flammable liquid inside the car.
Rlamas,
Congratulations on your TTA! Before you start trying to make more horsepower make sure that the car is good first. Run a couple of tanks of fuel injector cleaner through it and make sure that the oil and filters are in good shape. These cars run under 5 second 0-60s and you should not get beat by most other stock cars.
Please read the above comments and think twice before trying to modify your car.
To all that are modifying your cars. Please remember that when I was involved with the development of these cars was 22 years ago and there are a lot of faster cars out now and technology has changed drastically. I will always preach “leave it stock” because to engineer a car that goes faster takes a lot of effort and to do part of the car and not the whole car as a package always leaves a shortcoming, usually in the safety or reliability department.
We are engineering a fuel system for the supercharged Viper for one car, are designing and fabricating a sender, soft lines, tank pick-up, wiring harnesses/relay/fuses, hard lines, regulator, fuel injectors and rail, mounting brackets, clips, fuel rail brackets, and last but not least all the required fasteners. The fuel lines have to routed in safe places away from moving parts and heat. They cannot vibrate or rub on anything. They also cannot be rigid near the engine to prevent cracking. By the time it is over the customer will spend about $2,500 on just the fuel system. The AN fittings, hoses and tubes are over $500 just in parts. The TTA HO, Firefox and Twin-turbo all were over $100,000 to engineer as a package which includes testing on tracks and dynos and many fabricated parts to OEM level. This is why I get frustrated by parts sellers that cannot answer what improvements their parts do and do they have evidence to prove it.
This Viper was a death trap for the owner and broke down regularly. By the time we rebuild it correctly the bill will be what most of you paid for your cars so please really do your homework and do not believe what you read in the Magazines as they will never say a product does not work since the product manufacturer is paying for advertising in the same magazine.
Enjoy your cars as Winter is coming and thank you all for your enthusiasm for the TTA!
Scott
Sorry about not getting back to your PMs but like I said, I really have to limit how much time I am on the computer.
I was able to get a few sections on the website but many to go so be patient.
I am reworking a poorly done 2002 Viper GTS that has a 2004 Gen 3 engine that has been bored and stroked to 9 Liters. On top of that it has a cobbled up Paxton Supercharger with a water to air intercooler system. We are rebuilding the fuel system, rewiring the engine, calibrating the AEM system, reworking the power steering, oil cooler, intercooler, electrical, PCV/breather, and vacuum systems and replacing damaged parts from poor fabrication or improper installations. A big project and heartbraking as the owner actually paid several shops to do this work and they did a horrible job.
Now on to the PMs and responses on the blog:
Jan:
I appreciate your enthusiasm for keeping the registry but I will never allow letters to be sent out from PAS that are not from PAS. On the build records understand there are two things you are referencing, one is the printouts that were generated by both PAS and GM when the cars were built, the second is the VIN records I kept for every car we built. I will not let these out any more and am getting the printouts back from Rich. I am leaning toward doing something special for PAS Vehicle owners once PAS is making money. I will however be releasing the last six digits of each vin with the GM sequence number soon that you will be able to use to generate the registry from.
Anthony:
On the Exhaust, many people make too much out of it on turbo and supercharged cars. Realize that when making big power on the TTA the restriction is not in the exhaust (with the cat) but in the elbow coming out of the turbo. The TTA HO had a custom stainless elbow that we made to remove that restriction and fabricated a new exhaust with an oval downpipe that went to a flowmaster muffler. I had low backpressure but I never liked the sound of a flowmaster on the TTA.
Boost, this depends on your configuration. I can only talk to a stock TTA. I liked to run 18 lbs with no cat and 104 octane fuel. This generated over 400 foot pound of torque and about 4.3 ish 0-60 times with stock everything else (including the chip).
Chips, no comment as these are all new since we built the cars. My normal response is that there is hundreds of hours to develop the stock chip and we made it so that as long as the engine does not knock it will keep making power with no speed limiter.
PCV systems, all supercharged and turbocharged engines make more crankcase gasses than a naturally aspirated engine. The PCV valve closed under boost so it does not hurt anything but the breather tube send the gasses into the compressor inlet of the turbo when the PCV valve is closed. This DOES send oil into the intercooler and it sits in the bottom and sooner or letter collects. Since all of your cars have been around a while I would recommend removing the intercooler, clean it out with solvent of some kind and make sure it is dry before re-installing it. We used to make a plug for one end and pressurize it with compressed air while holding it upside down.
To answer your question on why, it is a law that the engine cannot let fumes of gas or oil into the air so the best place to put it is in the vacuum side of the turbo. The push in breathers are old school and work but get oil all over the engine compartment after a while. We made “catch cans” for the breather system that caught the oil and then vented the fumes to the Turbo inlet. This can has to be drained periodically. You can now buy catch cans at racing parts houses that work the same but have a breather on top and a drain that work well.
For Summer only cars plugging the water ports to the throttle body are ok but I don’t think that it makes much difference as the air is going pretty fast at WOT by the throttle body.
On the airflow, I don’t know as when we ran stock boost pressures we never saw any unusual exhaust temps on those cylinders. However, maybe there is a difference with excess boost.
On the TTA HO for yourself. I would rather you modify a Trans Am rather than reduce the value of your TTA. With most cars the value of special cars start going up after 20 years and collectors want stock cars no matter how nice the mods are. I would use a Trans AM, not a GTA as they were lighter. To have to good fun also install a real roll cage. This is not only for safety though, the chassis stiffness is much improved and makes the suspension really work. This makes the car feel much lighter and more fun in the corners. Make sure that you have someone that knows how to put in a roll bar. If it is put in on a lift the car will not be flat when on the ground and give you all kinds of weird handling problems.
I will be able to do these when I get the shop together but they are not cheap.
Ron,
Sorry for not responding but I do not check the blog very often and missed the opportunity.
Bob,
I am glad you are winning on your calibration. I think you can appreciate all the time that goes into programming one of these cars. We also had to meet 50-state emissions and gas guzzler on top of making it fast and drive-able. On the fuel pump, I recommend to all of you to make sure you need something before looking at new products. Before putting on a bigger fuel pump, connect a known accurate fuel pressure gage to your fuel rail with an extension to tape it to your windshield. Do some WOT runs and verify that your fuel pressure is going down. If not, don’t waste your money. If it does just a little then do the same thing but with a volt meter connected near the pump and check your voltage. If not as good as at the battery then run a 12 ga wire to the pump and make sure the ground is good. Then check the pressure again.
Another think is to look at your O2 sensor readings and see if it is going lean at WOT. If the fuel pressure and voltage are good but you are leaning out you may need a little more fuel pressure or larger injectors.
I do not recommend water/meth injection for the street. The failure mode for these systems is if it stops working under boost you can detonate the engine to death. I also have a problem with flammable liquid inside the car.
Rlamas,
Congratulations on your TTA! Before you start trying to make more horsepower make sure that the car is good first. Run a couple of tanks of fuel injector cleaner through it and make sure that the oil and filters are in good shape. These cars run under 5 second 0-60s and you should not get beat by most other stock cars.
Please read the above comments and think twice before trying to modify your car.
To all that are modifying your cars. Please remember that when I was involved with the development of these cars was 22 years ago and there are a lot of faster cars out now and technology has changed drastically. I will always preach “leave it stock” because to engineer a car that goes faster takes a lot of effort and to do part of the car and not the whole car as a package always leaves a shortcoming, usually in the safety or reliability department.
We are engineering a fuel system for the supercharged Viper for one car, are designing and fabricating a sender, soft lines, tank pick-up, wiring harnesses/relay/fuses, hard lines, regulator, fuel injectors and rail, mounting brackets, clips, fuel rail brackets, and last but not least all the required fasteners. The fuel lines have to routed in safe places away from moving parts and heat. They cannot vibrate or rub on anything. They also cannot be rigid near the engine to prevent cracking. By the time it is over the customer will spend about $2,500 on just the fuel system. The AN fittings, hoses and tubes are over $500 just in parts. The TTA HO, Firefox and Twin-turbo all were over $100,000 to engineer as a package which includes testing on tracks and dynos and many fabricated parts to OEM level. This is why I get frustrated by parts sellers that cannot answer what improvements their parts do and do they have evidence to prove it.
This Viper was a death trap for the owner and broke down regularly. By the time we rebuild it correctly the bill will be what most of you paid for your cars so please really do your homework and do not believe what you read in the Magazines as they will never say a product does not work since the product manufacturer is paying for advertising in the same magazine.
Enjoy your cars as Winter is coming and thank you all for your enthusiasm for the TTA!
Scott
RatFink
TORQUE
Thanks for the responce Scott. I'd like to see your Viper project. Maybe you could post some pics. It sounds very cool. I've had my TTA since the summer of 1990. Dad was a dealer and we got mine at the Pontiac dealer auction at Indianapolis. I was 17 and more than excited about getting the car. I knew from driving dad's GN that I was a very fortunate kid. I've enjoyed this car since. It's my first and only true love and I'll never sell it unless I'm homeless.
With that said, I appreciate your comments, but I was surprised that you don't recommend alky injection. I see what your saying about system failure under boost, that would be unfortunate. I always test my alky pump before a WOT run. Nothing is 100% though. Anyway, I sometimes wish I left my car stock, (I actually started thinking about it back in 1994) but me and dad have had a good time making little mods over the years, I've saved all the stock parts though so I don't feel too guilty. Thanks again for your comments and great info. Also, thanks for a awesome contribution to the automotive industry. I think these cars are as cool as an american car could have ever been.
With that said, I appreciate your comments, but I was surprised that you don't recommend alky injection. I see what your saying about system failure under boost, that would be unfortunate. I always test my alky pump before a WOT run. Nothing is 100% though. Anyway, I sometimes wish I left my car stock, (I actually started thinking about it back in 1994) but me and dad have had a good time making little mods over the years, I've saved all the stock parts though so I don't feel too guilty. Thanks again for your comments and great info. Also, thanks for a awesome contribution to the automotive industry. I think these cars are as cool as an american car could have ever been.
