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running lean....

jarredsoon

jarredsoon

Gold Member
Ok

So I have a tt 6.0 chip and wideband. I have my a/f set at 10.8 and my alky at 6.0. I am getting my target a/f ratio but then the car leans out and I let off the gas. I don't want to go wot for fear of detonation and impending doom.....

Looking at the power logger my a/f is good and then jumps up to 11.5 and I let off, I would look at my in car fuel psi gauge but everything happens too fast. my inj duty is 57 percent so I am not running out of inj.

I have a single walbro 340 intank pump now, I want to know what the best pump is and where to get it??

I have heard of weldon and the aeromotive stuff, .... what do you guys think?

What is the absolute best fuel system to get, I am assuming I'll have to go with an external pump.

I don't want to drive the car anymore until I get this solved as it is hard to not go wot. I guess I could just run less boost but what fun is that??

Jarred.
 
Whoa!....I don't think you have enough data to warrant an external pump just yet.

How about attaching a log here so we can see it. If you're running an electrical FP gauge then you you can log your FP too, if you aren't already.

11.5 is kinda lean, but if it's not detonating then...

And you're sure your WB is reading correctly? What's the NB rading at the same time?

Post the log(s).


...
 
I saaved the logs to the computer but I don't know how to post them.....
The a/f ratio goes fatter and fatter as boost increases and then all of a sudden jumps up to 11.5 and I lift off the gas at that point. I did three tries and same thing each time. It makes me think my pump can't sustain the pressure for that long. I am going to wire up the fuel pressure gauge to the power logger this weekend hopefully, I have a buddies bachelor party so.....
 
Your Walbro can keep up with a 6 cylinder at half throttle. Not the issue.

What is your narrowband reading? Does it mimic the wideband? Any knock?

Post a log...upload it via the attachments.

Jason
 
jarredsoon said:
I saaved the logs to the computer but I don't know how to post them.....
The a/f ratio goes fatter and fatter as boost increases and then all of a sudden jumps up to 11.5 and I lift off the gas at that point. I did three tries and same thing each time. It makes me think my pump can't sustain the pressure for that long. I am going to wire up the fuel pressure gauge to the power logger this weekend hopefully, I have a buddies bachelor party so.....
Click to expand...

Actually open up the log and hit "Print Screen" and upload the picture. That should suffice for now.
 
No,no...."zip" the file and then add as an attachment. I want to see all of it,or them.

Skip the bachelor party....he's a goner now anyways, and when he's married you're never going to see him till he has kids.:rofl:

If I were to guess, I'd say that it's a quick alky ramp that's diving those A/F numbers. But all this is just an exercise in masturbation till we can see a log...Lord knows Jason does enough of that!:hump:
 
Rich I am still at work but what do you mean by alky causing my lean condition?? would it not help to keep things rich??
 
Uhmm,not "causing " it. But the alky ramp is maybe steep and maybe it's overwhelming the chip's ability to correct fueling for a moment. Then it(chip) catches up.
So, you're seeing the A/F numbers dive as the alky is spraying as well as the chip reacting to the boost coming up.The chip sees this too and starts to subtract fuel until the alky stabilizes and the boost stabilizes and that's maybe why you're seeing the sudden swing to a "leaner" A/F....but I'm not saying 11.5 is lean by any means, especially if your target A/F is 10.8.


We need to see the log(s), I need to look at your BLM number.

I also want you to change something in your .ini file so you can see actual fuel correction. But that's for later.


..
 
WS6 said:
No,no...."zip" the file and then add as an attachment. I want to see all of it,or them.

Skip the bachelor party....he's a goner now anyways, and when he's married you're never going to see him till he has kids.:rofl:

If I were to guess, I'd say that it's a quick alky ramp that's diving those A/F numbers. But all this is just an exercise in masturbation till we can see a log...Lord knows Jason does enough of that!:hump:
Click to expand...

I remember when I used to do that. awww the good ole days. :kissass:
 
jarredsoon said:
Rich I am still at work but what do you mean by alky causing my lean condition?? would it not help to keep things rich??
Click to expand...

My money says that if you stay in it you would have a clean run.

Remember a long time ago when I said the stock computer can't keep up? Well, guess what...? It can't keep up.

It is like Rich trying to keep up with me going down the track. Just isn't going to happen.
 
seems like when ever I get to 45mph I have a lean condition. the knock senor is not picking anything up but I am not sure I trust it as I tightened it to 14 ft/lbs with my big wrench that does not go lower than 25 so I have to move the adjuster way down and am not sure if the torque on the sensor is 100% correct. Before I drive in a lean condition like that I am gonna buy a new smaller torque wrench and double check that. Only sucks now that hte motor is in the car....
 
First of all, is your wideband working? high 8's to low 9's?

Looking at log 1....it looks to me like it gets lean when you let out?

Frame 584: 22.7 psi, no knock, 0.858 o2's, 3.19 tps

Frame 587: 13.5 psi, no knock, 0.756 o2's, 1.58 tps.

I fail to see a problem here? I run mid 700's the whole 1/4 mile. onto the next log...
 
I don't see a single problem. Log's 2 and 3 look even better. It does look like the ECM is commanding fuel via the low BLM's, but I don't know much about that. Let rich comment...

IMO, your logs look just fine...You guys need to throw out the damn widebands and tune with knock and the stock o2 sensor.
 
Allright...what I see right now that I would change is to shut off the mid boost fuel targeting (#3 to 9.9) then I would take #4 (WOT fuel) down to 128 or 0.0% change.

Right when your leaving at 4-5 psi the fuel correction starts subtracting fuel up -10.2% that is why your BLM's are bottoming out at 115.

Start new with your settings at default. And stay on the gas,for cryoing out loud you're worse than me with the soft peddling business.

It seems to me that your throwing too much fuel at it and your not doing proper runs.


Get that thing up to 50 MPH and leave it 3rd gear, pin it too the floor and record a couple of those runs up to 100MPH.

There isn't even an accumulation of knock counts , but I would verify your knock sensor's torque too.

Watch the BLM box when using the 6.0. It can tell you what the chip is trying to do, in fact watch it in your PL graph.

And since you're in this pretty deep, think about logging your alky pressure too.

Jason's right though, the narrowband is telling the tale of how fat it is throughout the run.

I know he doesn't like wideband tuning becasue he's done very well with just the narrowband.....makes me wonder if he will tune the '76's LS with just a narrowband? hmmm??


..
 
WS6 said:
I know he doesn't like wideband tuning becasue he's done very well with just the narrowband.....makes me wonder if he will tune the '76's LS with just a narrowband? hmmm??..
Click to expand...

no I am not. I am not going to even run a narrowband.

I will tune with a (or should I say pay) wideband on the dyno and it will be used as a measuring tool. EGT, fuel pressure, and a general guideline is all you need...IMO.

As I have said before, if I got a wideband on my car and it read 15.4 AFR I wouldn't change it.
 
One more thing,it seems that your WB is skewed. If you can calibrate it,do so. If it's an LC1 do a new install calibration and a free air calibration, or the equivilent on whatever brand WB you have.
 
OK thanks for the insight on my logs,... you guys seem to have gathered alot of info, more than I did from them and I was there....lol

OK so my wideband is an aem, I have the "aem" selected in the drop down box in the power logger. I did not do anything to calibrate it, do I have to and how do I do that. If it is in the manual I will read that again, Im not trying to be super lazy.

My recall on my alky shows 150 psi every run, how quick it climbs to that I am unsure.

I will turn the midboost base fuel to 99 from 145

I will double check the knock sensor torque with a new smaller wrench, I am not going to drive the car until I do this as I am scared to detonate.

the WOT base fuel I will put back to 128 and try a run from 50 mph....

basically I am gonna follow Rich's instructions.....

I didn't hav etime last night to play with the car I was helping my friend remove a trans from a VW.... what a pain.... ugh!!

Tonight I have to help my cousin move.... I hate moving!! But he helps me remove gas tanks and fuel pumps from TTA 733 so.... I have to return the favor.

I will report back before Monday!!

thanks again for helping me read my log files!!!
 
jarredsoon said:
OK so my wideband is an aem, I have the "aem" selected in the drop down box in the power logger. I did not do anything to calibrate it, do I have to and how do I do that. If it is in the manual I will read that again, Im not trying to be super lazy.


the WOT base fuel I will put back to 128 and try a run from 50 mph....

basically I am gonna follow Rich's instructions.....

I didn't hav etime last night to play with the car I was helping my friend remove a trans from a VW.... what a pain.... ugh!!


thanks again for helping me read my log files!!!
Click to expand...

BTW, change your oil. You are very, very rich and fuel dillution will take out the bearings faster then detonation will. I would change it before you started it again. You run methanol and you are rich. Pretty much the worst combination possible.

Rich has first hand experience with the 6.0 chip, so let him respond first.
..take his advice over mine.

But, shut off the mid boost fueling adjustment.

Your AEM will need to be calibrated. It operates in a very narrow range.

Lastly, and don't take this as a dick statement even though it is blunt...I see you posted on turbobuick and turbotweak as well. Take ONE person's advice at a time. IE: Take Rich's help first. If you don't think his help is good enough then go post on turbotweak or turbobuick.com. The last thing you want is internet tuners to be throwing advice at you. I don't care what you say, but until you have fudged with a tune for 3 months, you haven't tuned...Not a single person tunes the same. When you do, you end up blowing up your car.

You are on the right path!!!
 
Quiky One said:
Your AEM will need to be calibrated. It operates in a very narrow range.

Lastly, and don't take this as a dick statement even though it is blunt...I see you posted on turbobuick and turbotweak as well. Take ONE person's advice at a time. IE: Take Rich's help first. If you don't think his help is good enough then go post on turbotweak or turbobuick.com. The last thing you want is internet tuners to be throwing advice at you. I don't care what you say, but until you have fudged with a tune for 3 months, you haven't tuned...Not a single person tunes the same. When you do, you end up blowing up your car.

You are on the right path!!!
Click to expand...

Jason

Good idea on the oil change!!

Ya I posted on the TT and TB, I like to hear what everyone has to say esp Eric. Everyone seems to agree that I am too rich so..... I do not mean to insult anyones advice by posting on other boards, just listening to what others say.

Does anyone here know how to calibrate the aem wideband sensor, I dont recall reading that in the instructions?? I will have to check back.

Jarred
 
jarredsoon said:
Jason

Good idea on the oil change!!

Ya I posted on the TT and TB, I like to hear what everyone has to say esp Eric. Everyone seems to agree that I am too rich so..... I do not mean to insult anyones advice by posting on other boards, just listening to what others say.

Does anyone here know how to calibrate the aem wideband sensor, I dont recall reading that in the instructions?? I will have to check back.

Jarred
Click to expand...

Jarred,

http://www.aemelectronics.com/Images/Products/Installation%20Instructions%2030-4100.pdf

Page 3. I eat my words. It looks like the latest wideband does not need to be calibrated. That kinda sits with me wrong, but that is what they claim. Get to know the gauge and the car and don't look at the actual number. If your car runs 5 MPH faster and doesn't detonate, I would say you are good.

Smell the oil on the dipstick and see how strong it is. :thumbup:
 
Apparently the new AEM's don't require any set up or follow up calibration,which is good,but it appears it has a more narrow scaling like 8.5-16.5 whereas the LC1 one goes to 7.39-22.XX. It's not uncommon to see my A/F go above 16 when the chip goes into lean cruise. But I suppose in lean cruise it doesn't matter what A/F is displayed or even if it's accurate.

Shortly I will be installing a PL along with the 6.0 and AEM WB in a friends GN so I can get some experience with that brand and how it compares to my LC1 and how it contrasts to his narrowband.
 
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