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How should my car perform?

A

at t 2d

Well-Known Member
I bought a TTA last week and I have been busy getting it stabilized.....

It had a 1/4 tank of old gas that I topped off with premium and put a can of fuel injector cleaner in. Pontiac replaced the oxygen sensor which was giving me a check engine light, the oil, and the fuel filter as well. I replaced the hatch struts so it doesn't hit me in the head any more. Started scrubbing the interior, it was bad. Could not pass state inspection due to dry rot of the tires (Pontiac told me not to drive it until they were replaced. I am getting the new tires in the morning :)

Based on a few short drives, I am very underwhelmed by the performance and I am wondering if there is something else wrong. The idle is very rough and it doesn't start pulling very hard until around 30 MPH or so. It isn't coming remotely close to spinning the tires. I don't think it would keep up with my Mini Cooper S which is supposed to run 14.9 in the quarter. The car has 39,000 miles and I believe the drive train is all original.

I had a new 85 TA and a new 87 GTA as well which were wonderfull cars. I believe theTTA's were supposed to be in the mid 13's in stock form. My brother had a new 87 GN and If I recall, he could light the tires up pretty mutch at will. I recently had an 04 Corvette that was supposed to be a mid 13 second car as well and the TTA doesn't feel any where near as quick.

Is this normal? If not, where should I start looking first. The boost gage is not working, but I can certainly hear the turbo very loudly when I give it gas - a wonderfull sound it is :)

These are such special cars, I can't wait to get it all fixed up.
 
I'd start with the broken boost gauge. You may only be getting partial boost?? Have you tried launching from about 2000rpm (One foot holding the brake while getting to 2000rpm).
 
get your stock boost gauge fixed, but I would get a real boost gauge, like a VDO. They are way more accurate and show boost in real time. The stock gauge is slushy, way too slow. See if you have any leaks around the wastegate actuator. Stock boost is 16.5. The stock chip is said to be real junk compared to new tech. TurboTweak Home will be help and they sell scan tools, like the scanmaster.
 
Start with the basics, plugs, wires (save the originals with the 20th aniv writing), air filter. Clean the throttle body and IAC passages, and set the IAC and Throttle position sensor. Replace the waste gate hoses but keep the ols "y" fitting as the ones for the TTA are different from the GN and GM replacement hoses. Replace any other suspect vacuum hoses.

As others have said, get the boost gage fixed before you hammer it. Scanmaster is a great tool as is a Caspers Knock gage, and boost gage.

First key is basic tune up stuff. Ask as many questions you want or need to. We all started as new owners, many of us with used TTA's.

Glenn
 
Hi Glenn,

How do you go about cleaning the throttle body and IAC passages? Spray a lot of carb cleaner with the engine off? Wait till it all evaporates before running the engine? I was setting my Caspers cam sensor (cap) last Sunday and discovered inside my throttle body it was all black with a coating of oily residue. It wasn't runny like fresh oil - more like like a light coating of oil that has been there long enough to be kind of tacky to the touch. How do I keep that from building up in my throttle body? Does this mean something else is wrong? I'm just getting into working on my car after many attempts at getting it running right by the dealership and some independant shops. Thanks for reading - I really appreciate your input.
 
gplmaster said:
Hi Glenn,

How do you go about cleaning the throttle body and IAC passages? Spray a lot of carb cleaner with the engine off? Wait till it all evaporates before running the engine? I was setting my Caspers cam sensor (cap) last Sunday and discovered inside my throttle body it was all black with a coating of oily residue. It wasn't runny like fresh oil - more like like a light coating of oil that has been there long enough to be kind of tacky to the touch. How do I keep that from building up in my throttle body? Does this mean something else is wrong? I'm just getting into working on my car after many attempts at getting it running right by the dealership and some independant shops. Thanks for reading - I really appreciate your input.
Click to expand...

That gunk in your throttle bod is likely blow by. Get some breathers for your valve covers and keep that stuff out of the system. You'll likely to have some built up in your intercooler too. May want to take it off and wash it out.
 
Thanks RatFink! I'll do that - do you know where to get those and how much they cost? Or should I just search the forum? Also - any reason to use a certain type of carb cleaner or anything to watch out for when use that stuff?
 
I got my breathers from John's performance, but I think he's no longer in the biz, anyway my brother's GTP breathers are identical to mine. I'll list the link below. He got his through 3800 performance. You may want to secure a refund promise in case it doesn't fit, but I think it's the same. The little ones I have and others on this board are using can be found at most AutoZones or O'Reily's parts stores. I guess regular carb cleaner.

http://www.3800performance.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Product_Code=CASPERS-VCB&Category_Code=EC&Product_Count=10

caspers_vcb.jpg


valveCover.jpg


breatherlogo.jpg
 
+2 on getting the stock boost gauge working. My TTA stock boost gauge, was inop also, when I bought the car. It ended up being the 3 bar MAP sensor. Theirs an updated MAP sensor for this car, but you have to reverse the wiring for it. Theirs a few threads about doing it on here & other sites. Also make sure, the correct .40" orifice, for the turbo, too small or to big will affect boost output.
 
gplmaster said:
Hi Glenn,

How do you go about cleaning the throttle body and IAC passages? Spray a lot of carb cleaner with the engine off? Wait till it all evaporates before running the engine? I was setting my Caspers cam sensor (cap) last Sunday and discovered inside my throttle body it was all black with a coating of oily residue. It wasn't runny like fresh oil - more like like a light coating of oil that has been there long enough to be kind of tacky to the touch. How do I keep that from building up in my throttle body? Does this mean something else is wrong? I'm just getting into working on my car after many attempts at getting it running right by the dealership and some independant shops. Thanks for reading - I really appreciate your input.
Click to expand...

If the throttle body is really gunked up you can take it off, remove the IAC and clean it with carb cleaner or GM "top engine cleaner, if it's not too bad you can just spay it good with the "top engine cleaner".

The gunk is most likley fron the blow by as mentioned. There is a tube that runs from the drivers valve cover to the turbo inlet bell. This tube will run oil fumes into the turbo then thru the intercooler and into the throttle body. You can get a rubber cap like thing from Autoaone that will plug the inlet to the turbo bell, secure it with a hose clamp or ziptie, then put the breather on as mentioned by others. I pluged the small hole in the Valve cover others install another smaller breather as shown in the picture Rat Fink posted. personal preference how you do it, as long as you have a breather of some sort.

The other item most people do on the throttle body is eliminate the hot water conection to the throttle body and just loop the longer hose to bypass the water path to the throttle body.

HTH
Glenn
 
Thanks to all of you: RatFink, TURBO1, V6TA-MI, and WS6. I will do as you all suggest. I didn't think anyone had responded b/c I had not received any alerts via email about replies, so sorry for the long delay.

Brief update: I have a worsening problem. I have set my cam sensor (at exactly 25 degrees ATDC) assuming everything is stock. I cleaned up my intake and turbo connections on the compressor side and found that the hoses were folded over in two places but I don't think there were any air leaks. I took it for a drive the other night and set my cruise on 45 mph so the computer could learn (i think) for about 8 miles. I turned around and very mildly accelerated (not even registering 0 psi on the boost gauge) and once I got to about 65...POP! And a cloud of black smoke came out from under my hood and over my windshield...then another pop from underneath the car and my engine died at highway speed. I pulled over and was able to restart and it seemed to drive ok with extremely gentle acceleration (granny style). I have noticed this problem getting worse. A few months ago I could get up to about 3psi on acceleration before it would pop. So whatever is going on is getting worse and I'm still getting code 41 cam sensor. I have the factory service manual and supplement but no scan master of any kind - just a me and my check engine light. I plan to go through the troubleshooting process from the TA supplement related to code 41. I will clean the throttle body and IAC motor - I remember reading about that a long time ago in The Source. But only recently have I wanted to embark on any work myself. I was afraid I would mess up my car before, but not now. Looking forward to an efficient and properly running TA. Thanks all for your help, links, suggestions, etc. By the way, the air intake hose is $80 from the local Pontiac dealer and the water pump (mine leaks in subfreezing weather) is $188!!! Absolutely insane! Suggestions?
 
POPPING sounds like a total lack of fuel. Is the fuel pump good? Clean fuel filter? Check the fuel pressure at idle?
 
There's a few tools you should probably consider buying to have in your arsenal. And one of them is a fuel pressure gauge with a 18"-30" hose.Hook it your shraeder valve and check FP at idle,vac line off. Then snake it through to the winshield and duct tape it, dial facing in so you can see it going down the road.Then check to be sure FP rises 1:1 with boost psi.

Cam sensor...many say it's only function is to locate #6 at start up and to turn over sequential firing of the injectors to the ECM.And that after that brief moment it doesn't do anything else. Some also say that the ECM does look at it for continued reference and that tweaking it a few degrees fore and aft will cure misfires, or tip in problems,or just make it generally run better.

Maybe the hall effect window under the cap is loose and is wobbling around at upper RPMs. Just a thought...

But you could start the car up, get it idling and unplug the Cam sensor and take it for a drive. This will force it to run in batch fire mode and not sequential. It will run normal,per say, and will rule out the cam sensor.

My GN buddy had a Casper's cam sensor cap that caused a NO-start issue and it was brand new.Soooo....
 
Thanks WS6, some very good information. I will try turning it a few degrees and see what that does. When I adjusted it, I took the cap off to be sure the window was in the right place on the sensor (4 o'clock looking towards the firewall) and also that the cap was oriented correctly. I plan to turn it clockwise a few degrees to see what that does. I do like the adjustability of the cap - it reminds me of the 1974 Cougar - my first car - when I would turn the distributor cap back and forth for instantaneous off the line power. Thanks for the suggestions. I'll give it a try unplugging and also adjusting. I am really anxious to check the fuel pressure.
 
Here is a a bird's eye view of a correctly positioned cam sensor w/cap installed. It's blurry but you get the idea.

I don't what you mean by 4 o'clock towards the firewall.
...

100_4900-1.jpg
 
Thanks for the photo. Enviable to have your engine out like that. What I meant was, if you are standing at the front of the car looking down at the cam sensor with the cap removed and #1 cylinder at TDC, the window should be in the 4 o'clock position like on a clock. In your photo the cap's wiring is pointing to about 4 o'clock. Mine is too and that happens to be where the window is sensed as well. Thanks.
 
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