Expensive Tank Of Gas.....

[michbc3]

That's more like it. Every gas tank has extra space built into it used for vapor control. No fuel tank is filled completely with liquid - would be dangerous. Accessible fuel is the only thing that counts in a range discussion which depends on how high you fill it. So I was correct in the first place when I estimated a 12 or 13 gallon tank in terms of the practical amount of fuel available. And again, I wouldn't "test" that spec. because electric fuel pumps are "cooled" by being immersed in fuel. Without cooling, they self destruct. Conclusion: Noticeably short range using E85. Not my style. But others that use their car differently may not care and may wish to make the compromise.

 

[Lsttype]

Well just because you have your car set up for E85, does not mean you are limited to running it only. My t type can still run 87 if desired, I just turn the boost down. Then I have my longer "range". Oh and btw it's not that expensive to convert to e85. A dw300 fuel pump, 80lb injectors and a chip will get you converted. Additionally a 6an return line can be used if your factory return line doesn't flow well enough. Best of both worlds. I even have a pump gas chip in the console for road trips ready to go. If you factor in the price of race fuel then yes e85 will pay for itself.

 

[michbc3]

Why factor in the price of race fuel when some people have no intention of using it except for high boost dyno tuning? Supplemental methanol on-demand accomplishes the same thing - and such systems are easy to install.

To some, there's nothing cheap about a new larger fuel pump, 80 lb injectors, reprogrammed chips and 6 AN fuel lines. Last time I bought 20 feet of 6 AN, it cost me close to $100 - without fittings. I've gone to shops and been quoted $600 in labor just to drop and reinstall the gas tank - without parts. If you haven't done that in a TTA before, you're in for a shock. Good injectors? Another $400. Custom chips? I don't know. I don't use 'em. Maybe $200 each. Big fuel pump? $200 more. Again, for most people they are going to have to have all that jazz installed by a shop - adding more labor cost.

Plus, unless you drain the tank, how do you know the fuel mix that is in there when you change chips from E85 to 87 octane? Fuel change isn't like a light switch where it's on or off. Seems like a lot of guessing and fussing around to me.

No need to get defensive. If you like short range, then that's what you like. I don't. It's nice to have choices. People can make up their own minds.

 

[Lsttype]

I do get a little defensive when people knock e85 when they've never ran it. It cost me 700$ to convert my Ttype to E85 including the AN line. Injectors and tt chip were 400$ shipped to my door. Sold my old injectors and chip for 200$. I do all my own work and will do my tta tank myself. It has other benefits other than just hi octane such as the cooling factor and it Does not harm O2 sensors. Looking at the tta fuel lines, they appear to have less bends in them vs my regal. Im hoping the return line will not need to be changed to an an line but we shall see.

 

[michbc3]

You got a good deal on all those parts but forgot to include the pump. From the TTA people that I've met, far fewer than half do their own work and instead rely on shops. So they have to pay attention to labor costs. In addition to the $600 quote, I had another tank change out estimate that was $900. People need to know that and add it to their bill. I have 2 car lifts and changed the fuel pump myself - but it was by no means easy - even with the lift.

 

[michbc3]

Supplemental methanol also cools the intake charge - it's primary purpose. As a retired R&D propulsion system engineer, I also do my own work. Shortly after I bought my TTA in 2008, I removed the original engine and placed the long block on a cradle to preserve it in case somebody ever wants to restore this car to stock some day. I didn't sell off the original injectors and turbo. Then I gathered enough high quality performance parts to build a completely separate engine to do "R&D" without fear of a catastrophe. Cast connecting rods, cheap hypereutectic pistons, a cast crank and external balancing to my way of thinking do not belong in a high quality turbocharged engine. I also studied the GEN7+ software and made my own basic engine calibration. Though I don't own a dyno I oversee all tweaks to it. So I don't even have chip guys doing my thinking for me.

 

[Lsttype]

I agree. My motor in my tta is new and came with the car. My heart sank when the guy said it just had hyper pistons in it. Rest assured the motor will be coming out for forged pistons and I can't wait to port the heads and figure out a way to run studs!

 

[TTA855]

View attachment 8169 Supplemental methanol also cools the intake charge - it's primary purpose. As a retired R&D propulsion system engineer, I also do my own work. Shortly after I bought my TTA in 2008, I removed the original engine and placed the long block on a cradle to preserve it in case somebody ever wants to restore this car to stock some day. I didn't sell off the original injectors and turbo. Then I gathered enough high quality performance parts to build a completely separate engine to do "R&D" without fear of a catastrophe. Cast connecting rods, cheap hypereutectic pistons, a cast crank and external balancing to my way of thinking do not belong in a high quality turbocharged engine. I also studied the GEN7+ software and made my own basic engine calibration. Though I don't own a dyno I oversee all tweaks to it. So I don't even have chip guys doing my thinking for me.

You are the man! What block are you running in your TTA?
Just FYI, 15.5 gallons is the fuel capacity, since that is what it to took to fill it when I ran out.
I like your stacked TAs! I should post a picture of my garage too...