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ARP HEAD BOLTS

G

GNTTA

Active Member
I finally found the ARP headbolts that are exclusive to the TTA. John from Johns Performance stopped selling them and I asked him for the part #'s and this is what he sent me.
There are no part #'s associated with the head bolts but these are the sizes you need to order.
These are all 7/16 bolts with 14 threads per inch.
4 bolts 4 1/2 inches long
4 bolts 3 1/2 inches long
8 bolts 2 3/8 inches long

Torque to 25fp then 50 then 80. Wait a full day back off and re-torque to 80fp.

Thanks a million John!!!!!:clap:
 
I being looking for those bolts for a while , nobody know where we can get those, I called ARP they told me i have to measure the factory ones. so they can fabricated them.
I will call ARP again and see if they can make a set of that i will let yo guys know. and how much $ cost.

thanks a lot for that info.
 
fasttransam said:
I being looking for those bolts for a while , nobody know where we can get those, I called ARP they told me i have to measure the factory ones. so they can fabricated them.
I will call ARP again and see if they can make a set of that i will let yo guys know. and how much $ cost.

thanks a lot for that info.
Click to expand...

Just call Hillco Fastener Warehouse and talk to Ryan or one of his guys and they will sort you out, just give him the lenght of the ARP bolts ... remember to ask for the washers.
 
My friend just did a 4V swap on his 96 GT and reused the head bolts.
I told him it was not smart and he showed me it is only recommended,and he has never replaced them on any ford with no problems.
Do you think he is looking for trouble?
 
GNTTA said:
I finally found the ARP headbolts that are exclusive to the TTA. John from Johns Performance stopped selling them and I asked him for the part #'s and this is what he sent me.
There are no part #'s associated with the head bolts but these are the sizes you need to order.
These are all 7/16 bolts with 14 threads per inch.
4 bolts 4 1/2 inches long
4 bolts 3 1/2 inches long
8 bolts 2 3/8 inches long

Torque to 25fp then 50 then 80. Wait a full day back off and re-torque to 80fp.

Thanks a million John!!!!!:clap:
Click to expand...

hey thanks for that info let us know ASAP if ARP will be fabricate a seT just for TTA part #. also include washer. and how much will be $.
 
Jan Larsson said:
Just call Hillco Fastener Warehouse and talk to Ryan or one of his guys and they will sort you out, just give him the lenght of the ARP bolts ... remember to ask for the washers.
Click to expand...

HI: folks I email ARP w the information provided, they had differents part # individual bolts might work well on the TTA heads. If anybody planning working soon on cilynder head project, would be more precise send example of each BOLT to them (ARP), so they can measure them and fabricate a set specific for TTA. I will do my heads projet but unfortnelly I am deploy in IRAQ, I should be home by DEC so that will be my winter projet. plese keep us inform on the progress. remember the washers, and how much $$$$$$$$$$ will be for a complete set.

zach kimball point of contact (ARP)

thanks a lot !





Israel,
At the current time we do not offer a kit for that application. Based
on the bolt lengths you provided I was able to find bolts in our open
stock that are close to the ones needed.
On the bolts you need at 2 3/8" we have one at 2.400". The part number
on that bolt is HAP2.400-5. For the ones at 3 1/2" you need we offer one
slightly shorter at 3.450". The part number on that bolt is HAP3.450-5.
The bolt you need at 4 1/2" we have at that length. The part number on
that bolt is HAP4.500-5. You will also need washers for these bolts. The
part number on the washer is 200-8509. Please note that these are
individual part numbers and would need to be ordered in the quantity
that is required.
Regards,
Zac


-----Original Message-----
From: Erica Martinez
Sent: Wednesday, September 02, 2009 11:14 AM
To: Zach Kimball
Subject: FW: Website Submitted Question from israel rosario



-----Original Message-----
From: ARP Questions [mailto:[email protected]]
Sent: Monday, August 31, 2009 11:14 AM
To: info
 
Being frugal I put a set together from Summit individually. I called ARP and was told what the previous poster was told and that 2 3/8 and 3 1/2 were not made by them. They gave me the same part numbers as above and I odered them for $74 shipped. Now the short ones are being dropped shipped from ARP and they come with the chamferred washers included.

HAP 4500-5 (4)
HAP 3450-5 (4)
HAP 2400-5 (8)
washer number is 200-8509,but are included from Summit.


...
 
WS6 said:
Being frugal I put a set together from Summit individually. I called ARP and was told what the previous poster was told and that 2 3/8 and 3 1/2 were not made by them. They gave me the same part numbers as above and I odered them for $74 shipped. Now the short ones are being dropped shipped from ARP and they come with the chamferred washers included.

HAP 4500-5 (4)
HAP 3450-5 (4)
HAP 2400-5 (8)
washer number is 200-8509,but are included from Summit.


...
Click to expand...

I just went through this last Spring http://www.turbobuick.com/forums/turbo-trans-am-tech/282190-arp-head-bolts-studs.html#post2162375 ...called ARP direct and had no problem getting all the correct bolts and washers. I also had the option to get 6-point or 12-point and High Performance (180 tensil strength) or Pro (200 tensil strength). I went with the Pro 200's w/12-point heads. All bolts and washers came direct from ARP...I did check with Summit but they only sold the bolts in packages of 5.


Scott
 
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GNTTA said:
I finally found the ARP headbolts..

Torque to 25fp then 50 then 80. Wait a full day back off and re-torque to 80fp.

Thanks a million John!!!!!:clap:
Click to expand...

I'd like to know if these torque values are for dry, oiled up, ARP moly lube, black RTV or white permatex thread sealer with teflon or what??

Thanks, Bob
 
michbc3 said:
I'd like to know if these torque values are for dry, oiled up, ARP moly lube, black RTV or white permatex thread sealer with teflon or what??

Thanks, Bob
Click to expand...

Since I never got a reply to my question about what to put on these fasteners, I did some calling around. All the head bolts have to be sealed with the white teflon sealer stuff. And I'm using 70 ft-lbs.
 
im sorry we lost john he was a big help for us .... I got acouple parts from him in the bigining .... tried to buy a THDP then he found out it was discontinued ... so yeah that long ago.
 
going to be putting on my champion heads with arp bolts and .060 cometics. what torque sequence works best with mls gaskets? and do i need to run a thread sealant?
 
When you say MLS, I assume that you mean Cometic. The latest guidance from my machinist is to leave the gasket rivets alone and lightly coat the external gasket surfaces with Permatex Copper Spray. Let the copper fully dry (takes a day or two). Install the gasket and head using black RTV on the threads. Torque in 3 or 4 stages (I used 45, 65, 70, 80) according to the shop manual bolt sequence. Mark the position of the top of the first bolt with a crayon or spot of paint. Then back off all bolts about 1/2 turn and go through all the torque stages again. As predicted, I found that the first bolt was about 1/8th turn tighter after the second "round". And of course do not wait too long between the first and second "rounds" so as not to let the RTV totally dry.
 
headgaskets seem to be like making a favorite bbq sauce .. Everone has something diff to do. Ive been told to use locktite #567 sealer on the threads ??? I do know everyone says that cometics need a very flat surface = decked block an heads ???

just opinions. I have cometics on my TTA with a decked block and heads with arp bolts. Havent had high psi yet to the gaskets im scared lol ... it needs a tune
 
If the heads and block are flat within a couple of thousandth's as confirmed by a straight steel rule, I would not deck the surfaces. Locktite? Might be ok, but that's definitely a non-traditional approach. I'd guess that less than 1% of turbo engines are assembled like that. I never felt a strong desire to do radical experimentation on things like head bolts when more traditional/conventional solutions and processes work.
 
Glad that was clarified ... Loctite, the (brand), not loctite the (product). For newbies, we don't want to give them the wrong idea out of context. I've also used the white bolt sealer with Teflon that you referenced, but sold under the Permatex brand name; product number 80631. It works well too, but I recently switched to black RTV for head bolts. Just personal preference.

I use 80631 to seal timing cover and water pump bolts. It makes for easier clean-up if you have to get back in there for some reason.
 
michbc3 said:
When you say MLS, I assume that you mean Cometic. The latest guidance from my machinist is to leave the gasket rivets alone and lightly coat the external gasket surfaces with Permatex Copper Spray. Let the copper fully dry (takes a day or two). Install the gasket and head using black RTV on the threads. Torque in 3 or 4 stages (I used 45, 65, 70, 80) according to the shop manual bolt sequence. Mark the position of the top of the first bolt with a crayon or spot of paint. Then back off all bolts about 1/2 turn and go through all the torque stages again. As predicted, I found that the first bolt was about 1/8th turn tighter after the second "round". And of course do not wait too long between the first and second "rounds" so as not to let the RTV totally dry.
Click to expand...


I thought you guy's might get something out of this, it comes from the Cometic site:

What is AFM? AFM is a chemically blown, compounded nitrile synthetic rubber, bonded to an aluminum core with temperature resistance of over 2500 F. AFM material does not require gasket sealers or silicone bead. Re-torque is NOT required.
Back to Top Why does Cometic recommend MLS gaskets to be installed dry? Cometic Multi-Layer Steel (MLS) head gaskets go on dry because they are coated with a sealant. Each MLS head gasket is coated with a .001" thick viton rubber that is bonded to the outer stainless steel layers. Adding an additional sealer can hinder the performance of an MLS head gasket.
Back to TopWhat surface finish is required to us an MLS head gasket? A surface finish of 50 RA (roughness average) or finer, is recommended for a proper gasket seal. Anything rougher may conflict with the gasket design.
Back to Top What head bolt/stud torque do you recommend when using an MLS gasket? When using MLS head gaskets always refer to the manufacturer of the fastener to determine accurate torque values.
Back to Top
 
Yes, I read that stuff from the Cometic web site too before posting my message last September. So what I ended up doing was consistent with that guidance (dry gasket surface). Sealer of one kind or another HAS to be added to the bolt threads though.

To be clear, Cometic is saying that re-torque is not necessary after the engine has been running for a while = broken in.

The "backing off 1/2 turn and re-torque-ing" that was advised to me by my local shop took place during initial engine assembly - long before the engine was even started of course. Since I got an extra 1/8th of a turn out of the bolts after doing that, I believe it was a beneficial thing to do. Either the bolts stretched a little bit more or the gasket got a little flatter - which would not surprise me when using a "sandwich" type gasket like this.
 
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OK! I'll answer this but only because the new folks and uninformened folks need to know.


michbc3 said:
Yes, I read that stuff from the Cometic web site too before posting my message last September. So what I ended up doing was consistent with that guidance (dry gasket surface). Sealer of one kind or another HAS to be added to the bolt threads though.


Yes! You are correct on both points here but, you didn't point out that what ever sealer you use needs to be put on all head bolts. That is imparative to keep the torque the same.

To be clear, Cometic is saying that re-torque is not necessary after the engine has been running for a while = broken in.


I'm not sure what you are saying here but, after about 20 minutes of driving the motor is broken in. If you are using a pneumatic cam after the 20 minutes of cam break in the rest of the motor is broken in.

The "backing off 1/2 turn and re-torque-ing" that was advised to me by my local shop took place during initial engine assembly - long before the engine was even started of course. Since I got an extra 1/8th of a turn out of the bolts after doing that, I believe it was a beneficial thing to do. Either the bolts stretched a little bit more or the gasket got a little flatter - which would not surprise me when using a "sandwich" type gasket like this.
Click to expand...


Well, you have a problem. If you are using ARP bolts they will only stretch what the torque rating requires so, that means you over torqued and stretched the threads in the block. The gaskets are also rated for torque and will only crush to the pretested thickness, over crushing will cause failure.
The stock torque for heads is 65 ft lbs on the 109 block. Any good machine shop will do a vin 7 build. This means they will use a 65 ft lbs torque plate and there's no real reason for going over that, well, unless you want to run the risk of distorting the block.
Here's what I do: I do follow the procedure of the 3 step torque. I then let the heads and gaskets seat, generally over night. I then retorque to be sure, no loosening, just checking torque. If I don't have a dream vision over night, I will get up then, I will jump down, turn around, and pick a bale of cotton and if that don't work, I'll say Jimmy crack corn 10 times with my arms crossed over me chest while river dancing to Born to be WILD! Hey! Makes as much sense as what you wrote.
Just kiddin!:yes::yes::yes:
 
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