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High Cost of NOS TTA parts

T

TTA317

Member
Considering the price that NOS TTA emblems will apparently bring on places like Ebay, it occurs to me that it would be a good idea to find out the name of the company that originally made these parts, and, like we are trying to do with the TTA diecast car project, find out what it would take to get them to make another production run of emblem sets, even if they had to re-do the tooling. OR, perhaps somebody knows of someone or some company with the capability to make a “reproduction” part.

This idea came to me after reading the recent post in the “Cars & Parts For Sale” section of this TTA site, advertising 3 Indy Wings for sale on Ebay. I clicked on the link to find that the bid on these three NOS items is already in the $400+ range, and the “Buy It Now” price is listed as $550. WOW!!!!! I guess I can’t rap the seller too much if there are people willing to pay that price. I understand the “supply and demand” theory of pricing, but if I were the unfortunate TTA owner who just had a “fender bender” that had damaged the Turbo TA and Indy Wings emblems on one fender, and I was faced with paying several hundred dollars for each emblem to one of the few guys who have them, I don’t think I would be very happy. I could buy the whole new fender for less than the price of one emblem. Is it too naive to think that a TTA owner or enthusiast would be a little more compassionate when selling replacement parts to his fellow TTA owner in need?
 
I think TTA owners would be willing to help out fellow TTA owners. In the scenario you described though, they feel as though they are hurting the insurance company and not the TTA owner. This in fact hurts the owner through higher insurance premiums but that is off topic here. Also these parts may not be going on a TTA. Someone may be making a clone of some sort so the emblems might not end up on an actual TTA. Just my thoughts.
 
All emblems are under production as repro for the moment and under GM licence.
Should be up soon for sale.
This has been up and confirmed on the maillist for one week ago.
 
Swede,

That is great news!! I guess someone else had the same thoughts I did. I hope the price is reasonable.
 
Hi guys,
That's my auction. I guess I should reply to this. I am selling 3 brand new emblems that, for the most part, go for $200/each. I'm selling them for less than that. I'm not trying to gouge fellow TTA owner's. Just trying to get what I have in them.

Sorry if you guys feel that way...
 
I see the official release of the "repro" emblems is out at www.carmotorsports.com. Too bad their prices ($650 for a complete set) are even higher than some of the guys who were selling NOS on Ebay. Not that I need any emblems right now, but I was really hoping that the prices would have been more reasonable in the event that I did need one or all of them someday, and for the guys out there who are restoring their TTA. I wonder what the GM price was for the original set when they were still available. Anybody know??
 
I just purchased a complete set of emblems.. For me I am missing the sail panel and the turbo trans am emblems and for me to replace them with nos on ebay it will cost me more than that.. Just a couple weeks ago there was a set of Turbo Trans Am Emblems that were NOS never used for $700.00 buy it now price. I think the $650.00 is not that bad.. Plus it will get the originals off and keep them in good condition and also keep them from getting stolen. :lol:
 
I would also like to get new emblems for my TTA but my theory is that if one place is getting aftermarket then someone else will and the price will start to drop. So all of you buy the pricey ones and I'll wait till they are a dime a dozen. Also the shame isn't the people selling the emblems for so much ,its that people are willing to pay so much.
Dan
 
The price of the new CAR repro emblems is almost identical to how much they cost when you could still buy them from GM. They look beautiful in the pictures. I may buy a set to put on my car if I keep it, because my originals aren't perfect and are starting to show wear even though they're on a 3500 mile car. Electroplated gold is VERY thin, and it's easy to rub off.

Concerning the price of the repros, I think the price is VERY fair given the quality. I also dont think they will ever be a dime a dozen. To sell stuff cheap, you need to produce huge volume, or skimp on the tooling and development and produce crap. The CAR emblems are about as far from crap as you can get. With only 1555 TTA's made the market for these emblems is VERY small, so the tooling and development costs to reproduce these items is spread out over a rather small production run-- thus, the final prices are expensive.

I have almost 2 complete NOS sets of emblems (I'm missing a pair of the sail panel emblems, then I'd have 2 complete sets) but I'm leaving them safe in their GM bags.

CAR is also going to reproduce GM licensed upper and lower radiator hoses for our cars. We should all be VERY thankful that a vendor is willing to spend the time, effort, and money to reproduce items for such a small market. I believe that selling ANY product specifically for TTAs is a losing proposition-- the number of cars out there isn't large enough to generate enough sales volume to recoup the investment to produce the item in the first place.
 
Gokou said:
We should all be VERY thankful that a vendor is willing to spend the time, effort, and money to reproduce items for such a small market. I believe that selling ANY product specifically for TTAs is a losing proposition-- the number of cars out there isn't large enough to generate enough sales volume to recoup the investment to produce the item in the first place.
Click to expand...

My thoughts exactly! GM does not support us and they produced these cars. It is admirable that another company is stepping up to the plate to help us out, as you can see in the last 13 years very few products have come out just for these cars. So if a radiator hose costs twice as much as one for my GN then so be it, I am just glad that I will have a radiator hose to buy!

Gokou,
Nice car by the way. I have seen you advertising it on a couple of sites and I have seen it on ebay. Had you put it up for sale 6 months ago I would have bought it no questions asked. Good luck.
 
I DO very much appreciate that there are companies that will support aftermarket parts for our cars. I can also understand the low volume/high price logic. All I am saying is that I'd bet more TTA owners would be inclined to buy a whole set "right now" (thus move more volume) if the price were lower. I know I would. Car has the right to charge whatever they want. They know their business plan, and only they know what their actual profit margin is. But at the current pricing, I just won't purchase anything if I don't need it. And when the time comes that I do need something, I'll only buy the emblem that I need.
 
1987 GN said:
Gokou,
Nice car by the way. I have seen you advertising it on a couple of sites and I have seen it on ebay. Had you put it up for sale 6 months ago I would have bought it no questions asked. Good luck.
Click to expand...

Thanks! I really, really love the car, but it doesn't fit into my plans (low 11s/high 10s). I'd have to do some pretty serious mods and a roll bar to be within the rules, and I just can't do that to the car I have, so I'm going to pick up a higher mileage T-top car (hopefully cloth interior, I'm not a leather fan) to mod and drive.

If I had the money and garage space I'd buy another TTA to mod and drive and keep my current one as a showpiece, but right now that isn't an option for me. At the present moment I'd rather have a car that I can mod and drive, so that's why I'm selling. I'd rather not, but it's for the better given my current situation.

I've had people tell me I'm nuts for adding 1000 miles to it (it was a 2500 mile car when I got it, and I did a few simple mods like a scanmaster and adjustable FPR so I'd feel better driving it). I tell them "it's a car, it was made to be driven, get over it." :P The first real show I took the car to where people knew what it was, I had about a dozen people point to the car when I drove in and followed me to my parking spot. The funny thing was I brought my dad along, he was in the passenger seat. All the people went to HIM asking questions. He directed them to me, and I got a lot of funny looks... I guess they think most 23 year olds nowadays like lowered Hondas :lol:

Then again, I might decide just to keep the thing and put my desires for a highly modded car on hold until I have the room for another TTA in the fleet. :)
 
dare said:
I would also like to get new emblems for my TTA but my theory is that if one place is getting aftermarket then someone else will and the price will start to drop. So all of you buy the pricey ones and I'll wait till they are a dime a dozen. Also the shame isn't the people selling the emblems for so much ,its that people are willing to pay so much.
Dan
Click to expand...

Dan,

Your theory sounds good, but is flawed because you fail to take into account GM Licensing. We have the exclusive license from GM to make these emblems. No one else can make them. Plus, if they did, they would probably be the same price as ours. There is CONSIDERABLE expense in doing something right. There's licensing fees, royalties on product sale, insurance premiums on the $1 million general liability policy required by GM, shipping, molds, development costs, research costs, and time. THis is just off the top of my head. I could get even more graphic and detailed. The fact is that if the emblems were still available from GM, they would be as much, IF NOT MORE, than our emblems. BTW, if you are a betting man, bet on the latter. GM does price reviews about 2 times a year and usually this means increases not decreases.

I'm not slamming you. I too would love to sell the emblems dirt cheap. But we just can't do it. If I wanted to run the risk of having GM come after me and didn't get the GM licensing, that would knock off a good bit from the emblems.

Thanks,

Alan
CAR Motorsports
 
Alan,
I apologize if I affended you or anyone else. What I wrote was out of frustration for what parts cost for these cars. I'm used to buying parts for Camaros which I'm sure you know they can be gotten anywhere from many venders. This is my first experience where I can't easily go get a GM part. That would be my only gripe with my TTA, other than that I'm hooked with these cars. I wouldn't mind buying a real low mileage TTA when I sell my motorcycle, to have one to drive and another to look at.
By the way , I don't even know how much your emblems are. I was in your website but I couldn't find them. Unless they weren't posted yet?
Take care
Dan
 
dare said:
Alan,
I apologize if I affended you or anyone else. What I wrote was out of frustration for what parts cost for these cars. I'm used to buying parts for Camaros which I'm sure you know they can be gotten anywhere from many venders. This is my first experience where I can't easily go get a GM part. That would be my only gripe with my TTA, other than that I'm hooked with these cars. I wouldn't mind buying a real low mileage TTA when I sell my motorcycle, to have one to drive and another to look at.
By the way , I don't even know how much your emblems are. I was in your website but I couldn't find them. Unless they weren't posted yet?
Take care
Dan
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Hey Dan,

No offense here. I was just giving some background and explanation about the costs involved. I agree that Camaro and Firebird/TA parts are generally available from MANY vendors and in no short supply. However, the cars themselves are a dime a dozen and there's nothing particularly special about them. The TTA's, however, are quite rare and unique, having very little, if anything, in common mechanically with their GTA brethren.

One principle that seems difficult to grasp by some people (I AM NOT REFERRING TO YOU HERE) is that with rarity, there comes a price. This price can manifest itself in many ways, but it will certainly exist and most often exists in expensive parts. The TTAs are one such item. They are very rare when you consider how many were made, and rarer still when you consider how many might still be left. Thus, to own one is to be a member of a very limited group of people (a fraternity if you will) and to have in your possession something that, regardless of its value as a whole or the sum of its parts, is rare and somewhat irreplaceable. This rarity created by the small number in existence unquestionably helps in terms of the value of this car compared to a GTA.

However, the other side of the coin is that parts are SCARCE or NON-Existent and manufacturers who could make replacements cheaply won't do so because of the small market for the parts. This is where the "price of admission" occurs with owning one. Typically, the only way to get parts made is to utilize small volume (MORE expensive) manufacturing sources. Further, the greater expense is spread over a considerably smaller number of parts. The mold and development costs to make 1 item is the largely same as it is to make 10,000. However, when you are able to spread those costs out over 10,000 parts instead of 1,000, each part can be sold for MUCH less. So, TTA owners are in a conundrum by reason of the fact that the very thing that makes their cars SO unique and valuable are the same thing that makes the parts so hard to come by, get produced and ultimately wind up costing so much.

One other observation is that a couple of owners of these cars complain about the fact that they aren't as valuable as they think they should be. Both of these owners (who shall remain nameless to protect the innocent) have cars that are in somewhat of a state of disrepair. The seats are worn, the paint is chipped and faded, the emblems are cloudy, the carpet is nasty, and so on and so forth. Here is MY .02. Cars in premium condition bring premium dollars. Here, that is particularly true because potential purchasers start adding up what it will take to make one needing work nice and the cost gets expensive. The only way to keep the value of these cars high is to ensure they remain in impeccable shape. This means that owners may have to spend money, a good bit of money, to do so. But by doing so, they are protecting their investment. By not doing so, they are neglecting their investment. I want so bad to tell both of these owners (who don't do things because of the costs and I'm not so sure its not an I won't pay that attitude rather than an I can't afford that attitude) that if they can't afford to keep their cars up, they should sell them to someone who can and will. You don't hang a Monet in a livestock stable unprotected and neglected. Over time, the painting will deteriorate and its value will erode, if not be completely lost. Now a TTA is not a painting, but like a painting, its value (at least as a whole) will erode if the car is neglected and its condition continues to decline.

Sorry for the long post. On a positive note, We should be in a position to offer replacement ORIGINAL OEM radiator hoses for the TTAs very soon. Another product in development that will be available SOON are the vacuum harness/hose assemblies. Finally, we have the OEM intercooler scoops in production as well.

Alan
 
Alan,

Since I started this whole topic, I felt that I should say something. Thank you for your insight. It helps me appreciate my TTA even more for what it is, and I have to admit that even faced with the high cost of parts, owning this car has been and will always be worth it. Actually, after hearing what you had to say, I felt a little embarrased for complaining about high prices.

I am even more concerned about the availability of parts we will need to keep our cars on the road, as opposed to things that make them "look" great. Like the serpentine belt (which I wrote about in one of my other posts and actually was able to find the proper replacements that are still available), brake pads/caliper parts, the radiator hoses (that I'm glad to hear you will be making available, and other "consumables" that need to be replaced from time to time (how about the spark plug wires...hint, hint). It's to the point where I think I should just go out and buy them now and store them until I need them. I'm sure there are lots of TTA owners thinking the same thing.

Anyway, thanks again for your comments and for helping us to preserve a piece of automotive history.

Tom
 
:D

I am happy to hear about the intercooler scoop. How long till it's available? Mine has a little bit of warp to it. It likes to droop on one side and it looks like crap. Ant idea on what that little jewel is gonna set us back?
 
TTA Fan

TTA317 said:
Alan,

Since I started this whole topic, I felt that I should say something. Thank you for your insight. It helps me appreciate my TTA even more for what it is, and I have to admit that even faced with the high cost of parts, owning this car has been and will always be worth it. Actually, after hearing what you had to say, I felt a little embarrased for complaining about high prices.

I am even more concerned about the availability of parts we will need to keep our cars on the road, as opposed to things that make them "look" great. Like the serpentine belt (which I wrote about in one of my other posts and actually was able to find the proper replacements that are still available), brake pads/caliper parts, the radiator hoses (that I'm glad to hear you will be making available, and other "consumables" that need to be replaced from time to time (how about the spark plug wires...hint, hint). It's to the point where I think I should just go out and buy them now and store them until I need them. I'm sure there are lots of TTA owners thinking the same thing.

Anyway, thanks again for your comments and for helping us to preserve a piece of automotive history.

Tom
Click to expand...

Tom,

You guys that own a nice TTA are very lucky. I envy you and hope to one day "join" your fraternity by buying one. I'm a HUGE TTA fan.

Alan
 
Re: TTA Fan

automaniac said:
Tom,

You guys that own a nice TTA are very lucky. I envy you and hope to one day "join" your fraternity by buying one. I'm a HUGE TTA fan.

Alan
Click to expand...

Alan, mine's for sale. They don't come much rarer than my car... well, except for those few cars Rich has :D
 
Re: TTA Fan

Gokou said:
automaniac said:
Tom,

You guys that own a nice TTA are very lucky. I envy you and hope to one day "join" your fraternity by buying one. I'm a HUGE TTA fan.

Alan
Click to expand...

Alan, mine's for sale. They don't come much rarer than my car... well, except for those few cars Rich has :D
Click to expand...

Thanks. Unlike Rich, I'm not looking for one of the rarer ones that is more collectible. I want one of the 1300 plus t-top leathers so I can drive the sheer mortal heck out of it. I hate having something to just look at. That kind of stuff is on my mantle and walls, not my garage. I'd put 6,000 miles a year or more on that car. That's why I told Rich I wasn't interested in his 50 mile TTA.

Alan
 
Re: TTA Fan

automaniac said:
Thanks. Unlike Rich, I'm not looking for one of the rarer ones that is more collectible. I want one of the 1300 plus t-top leathers so I can drive the sheer mortal heck out of it. I hate having something to just look at. That kind of stuff is on my mantle and walls, not my garage. I'd put 6,000 miles a year or more on that car. That's why I told Rich I wasn't interested in his 50 mile TTA.

Alan
Click to expand...

That's why I'm selling... I want a car I can mod the heck and drive the heck out of. While I *could* do that to my current car (and I started to, I put 800 miles on it the first month I had it) I just can't bring myself to do it. It's too rare and too low mileage. I enjoy my cars by working on and driving them, not having them sit in the garage and look pretty... if I wanted something to sit there and look pretty maybe I'd collect antiques, but I like cars, and I like them for the reason they were made. To be driven. Driven fast is my preference :)

I can't wait for my next TTA, which will be a higher mileage T-top car (hopefully with cloth interior though)... because then I can mod it and drive it and not feel bad about hacking up and putting mileage on a rare car like my current one. I hope it sells soon... You should too Alan, because I'm going to have to order another cover. :P
 
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